Indemnity Mess

[gwenith, BSN, RN]

I was wondering what everyone thought about our current health care crisis?

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2003/s958891.htm

Asia-Pacific Home

Asia

Pacific

Indonesian

Chinese

Tok Pisin

Vietnamese

Find Your Local ABC

List of Regions

Event Diary

Arts Home

Film

Music

Books

Regional Arts

Digital Arts

For Kids

Visual Arts

Design

Performance

Religion

Education Home

Schools

Lifelong

Learn about

By Age

By Subject

TV & Radio

Indigenous Home

News & Info

Arts & Culture

Indigenous TV

Recipes

Radio

Kids Home

Site Map

TV Programs & Guide

ABC Kids Video Lounge

Chat

Games Centre

Grown Ups

Rollercoaster

News Home

Just In

World

Australia

Business

TV & Radio

Weather

Public Affairs Home

Elections

Issues & Events

Parliament

Federation

Rural Home

News

Special Coverage

TV

Radio Home

Local Radio

TripleJ

ABC Classic FM

Radio National

ABC NewsRadio

Radio Australia

DIG Internet Radio

Listen Live

Tuning In

Science Home

News in Science

Features

Explore

Play

TV & Radio

Dr Karl

Kids' Science

Environment

Nature

Space

Sport Home

AFL

Cricket

Rugby League

Rugby Union

Soccer

Tennis

J-Sport

TV Home

TV Guide

Programs A-Z

Drama

Documentaries

Comedy

Food & Garden

Tuning In

Triple J Home

Program Guide

Listen

J People

Gigs

Music

Stuff

Interactive

Rage

Health Home

Health News

Features

Your Stories

Library A-Z

Consumer Guides

Regions

TV & Radio

To print this page, select "Print" from the File menu of your browser

Australian Broadcasting Corporation

LATELINE

Late night news & current affairs

TV PROGRAM TRANSCRIPT

LOCATION: abc.net.au > Lateline > Archives

URL: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2003/s958891.htm

Broadcast: 03/10/2003

Gillard attacks Coalition over medical indemnity

As we heard earlier, 70 doctors in New South Wales have already quit over the Federal Government's new indemnity levy, and the AMA is warning that unless the crisis is resolved, resignations will spread along the eastern seaboard triggering an implosion of the health system across the nation. For a view of the Opposition's take on the crisis, I spoke with Shadow Health Minister Julia Gillard just a short time ago.

Compere: Quentin Dempster

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: Well, back to our lead story, now -- the crisis enveloping the public health system.

As we heard earlier, 70 doctors in New South Wales have already quit over the Federal Government's new indemnity levy.

And the AMA is warning that unless the crisis is resolved, resignations will spread along the eastern seaboard, triggering an implosion of the health system across the nation.

For a view of the Opposition's take on the crisis, I spoke with Shadow Health Minister Julia Gillard just a short time ago.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: Julia Gillard, welcome to Lateline.

We've got surgeons in public hospitals resigning because of their concerns with their medical indemnity insurance levy.

Do you support the doctors' tactics and actions?

JULIA GILLARD, HEALTH MINISTER: I can understand the doctors' tactics and actions.

I think we need to recognise that this has been a long time in the development.

In 1996, 1997, everybody knew medical indemnity was going to be a major issue.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: But these are coercive tactics.

They're walking away from their public hospital patients.

Norm Gallagher would be proud, if he was still alive.

JULIA GILLARD: They're walking away in frustration from a government that received a major report right back in 1997, the Tito report, which said that medical indemnity was going to be a crisis and it did nothing.

And, indeed, Michael Wooldridge, when he was minister, was quite proud of the fact that he was doing nothing and, in a recent speech at Melbourne University, said that criticism that he didn't do enough was unfair because the truth was he didn't do anything at all.

Now, when you've got a government showing that kind of neglect, no wonder doctors get frustrated.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: Should there be a moratorium on the levy?

JULIA GILLARD: What should happen -- and I think it's quite clear -- is Tony Abbott should start as Health Minister, not being in some twilight world where he's waiting to be sworn in.

He should start as Health Minister and he should reveal to the doctors the maths on which the levy has been calculated.

The doctors are saying that the maths is dodgy, that they're being asked to put in too much money, and I think there's a pretty good argument that they're right.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: Do you accept that 90 per cent of doctors won't pay more than $5,000 a year extra?

JULIA GILLARD: Look, I think the amount that doctors, particularly specialists, are being asked to pay is in the upper ranges.

We've had specialists who are saying that they're being asked for call-ups in 6-figure sums, and we also know that there are huge anomalies -- there are people who are only in part-time practice now who are being levied as if they were still working full time.

Women who have had children who are now trying to still do a little bit of their profession but not full-time hours are being asked for large sums of money.

Those anomalies need to be addressed.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: So you condone the wholesale disruption of the public hospitals on the eastern States, do you?

JULIA GILLARD: I don't condone the wholesale disruption of public hospitals but I understand a profession that is crying out in frustration for the Government to take this issue seriously and finally get something done about it.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: And even if it is another substantial impost on the taxpayers of Australia, if that's what it takes, you are prepared to pay that?

JULIA GILLARD: I don't think it is going to be another substantial impost on the taxpayers of Australia.

What has happened here is that the Government bailed out UMP, a medical insurer, when it was going broke.

Then the Government has struck a levy -- they're pretty good at striking levies, putting taxes on things, they did it with milk and with sugar -- they've struck a levy for doctors and said, "You now need to pay this."

They've never been transparent about those calculations, and I think there's a very good argument that they've overcalculated the liabilities because they haven't taken into account the impact of the changes recently in State negligence law.

The doctors are saying, "We think the maths is dodgy.

Show us the calculations."

The least Tony Abbott could do as in-coming minister is show them the calculations and if, in truth, the calculations are wrong and the levy has been overestimated, then Tony Abbott should announce a reduction of the levy, and I'd be calling on him to do that.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: If you get the transparency you want and it is as the Government says it is you'd support the Government in the rejection of the doctors' claims?

JULIA GILLARD: If it is as the Government says it is, then I still think that there are anomalies that need to be addressed in the package -- this is the problem of doctors who were full time who are now part time.

And I think there's sustainability issues about medical indemnity that still need to be addressed, not the least of which is, of course, the quality agenda in our public hospitals so we don't have adverse events that people end up suing over.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: The PM's moved Tony Abbott into Health, as we know.

Mr Howard's reaffirmed his undying love of Medicare, the universal Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme and universal access to free public hospital care.

He's recognised there is a problem, if not a crisis.

Do you welcome the Howard health initiatives?

JULIA GILLARD: I think the only undying love that he's actually affirmed is one of Tony Abbott.

I don't think that John Howard has changed his spots and suddenly become an advocate of Medicare.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: He said it on the prime ministerial website: "Today is the 20th anniversary of Medicare -- "our world-class public health system "which delivers universal health care for all Australians," and that's going to continue.

JULIA GILLARD: I read that and I assumed that the PM had gone into stand-up comedy because this is the PM -- let's be honest about it -- this is the PM who, throughout the 1980s, when he was taking turns being Leader of the Opposition, was Medicare's greatest critic.

He spent all of the 1980s saying he was going to destroy bulk-billing, pull Medicare right apart.

My personal favourite is he said that bulk-billing was raping the poor of this country.

He went to the 1987 election saying he would confine bulk-billing to concession cardholders, and that's exactly what he's doing with his so-called fairer Medicare package.

Now, if it's not universal, it's not Medicare, and he has never supported a universal health scheme.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: But, nevertheless, he said it here in the current context, and I put it to you that's what he's going to be rhetorically saying right up to the next election and, what, after August next year?

JULIA GILLARD: I think that's right, but I think Australians are pretty good at knowing what is spin and what is substance.

The PM can stand with his hand on his heart and say, "I love Medicare," but no-one in Australia has forgotten all of the 1980s when he wanted to destroy Medicare.

And, when they've got packages like the current one in the Senate which would basically end the universality of Medicare, no-one is believing them, and no-one should believe them.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: Do you acknowledge there's been a failure with hospital management and service delivery by the State Health Departments, particularly through the shortage of nurses, now that we've got emergency departments turning away patients coming in by ambulance?

JULIA GILLARD: Look, I think it's a bit rich to just put that at the feet of the States.

We've got medical work force shortages right throughout.

We don't have enough general practitioners, we don't have enough junior doctors in hospitals.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: But it's a State responsibility to recruit and retain the nurses, and to pay them adequately to stay in the system.

We've had Professor Dwyer in NSW say, "We can't get the patients through emergency into the general wards because we haven't got any nurses to man and staff the general ward beds."

JULIA GILLARD: But the problem with that argument is it's the Commonwealth that does the training.

It's the Commonwealth that turns the tap on and off that trained nurses come from.

And the Commonwealth had the tap turned off.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: One of the biggest forces is the market force, and that is the salary, adequate remuneration for the nurses.

That's a State responsibility.

JULIA GILLARD: Let's be clear about this.

There are kids right round this country that want to get into nursing and become nurses, and the stats show that when they apply for training places, they get turned away because there aren't enough training places.

That's a Commonwealth responsibility.

So, if we had enough nurses being trained, we'd obviously still need to address retention issues, but we wouldn't have the nurse force shortages we've got now.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: We've heard Labor is now reviewing the private medical insurance rebate, Bob McMullan took us through that night.

Do you favour means testing this rebate?

JULIA GILLARD: Look, that is an option that has been raised not be me but by health economists, by commentators in the health field.

We're obviously working our way through the private health insurance rebate.

We want to make an announcement about that when we're ready.

We've said that we will do a comprehensive review listening to stakeholders in the health sector as well as the community and, at a time of our choosing, we'll make an announcement about it.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: High-income individuals get, what, $700 on a family premium of $2,400 when they could easily afford to pay that.

It's unfair, isn't it?

JULIA GILLARD: The Howard Government's scheme was announced with no means testing, and it's blown out.

The Wooldridge estimate when it was introduced was that it would cost $1 billion.

It's now running at about $2.4 billion.

We obviously need to address the effectiveness of the private health insurance rebate.

But, at the end of the day, I'm preparing policy for the next election.

Everyone in Australia will know what our policy is well prior to the next election QUENTIN DEMPSTER: Come on, bite the bullet on means testing the rebate.

JULIA GILLARD: I'm not biting the bullet on means testing but I'm giving you this guarantee -- we will have our policy out there well before the next election for people to assess.

But there are issues with private health insurance today that in-coming Minister Abbott should be dealing with.

We've still got the problem where the gym shoes, and the recreational items -- the tents and the CDs -- are still in the ancillary benefits, still attracting a taxpayer subsidy through the rebate months and months after the Government said it would fix the problem, and then Senator Kaye Patterson said she would review complementary medicines, but we still don't know what's in or out.

Is aromatherapy massage in or is it out?

Tony Abbott's got to answer that question and he's got to deal with the fact that, around the country, private health insurers and private hospitals are failing to make proper arrangements, and that means that people who have private health insurance aren't getting to go to the hospital of their choice or use the doctor of their choice, even though that's supposed to be one of the reasons you have private health insurance.

Minister Abbott might like to get around to fixing that too before he worries too much about Labor's policies.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: I'm sure you'll have many questions for him when he fronts up to question time next Tuesday.

Julia Gillard, thanks very much.

JULIA GILLARD: Thank you.

Lateline Archives About

[email protected]

© 2003 Lateline. Australian Broadcasting Corporation.