Brain storm with me.

  1. 8 I have been interested in Holistic Nursing for a long time. The American Holistic Nurses Asso touts themselves as the only "official" certifying entity, and in the past, you had to have a bachelor degree and be a RN to even apply. I went to their site and they now have a path for associate degree RN's.

    I have a book "Holistic Nursing" :A Handbook for Practice by Barbara Montgomery Dossey that is endorsed by the American Holistic Nurses Asso on the practice of holistic nursing. I have the 3rd edition, but Amazon has a new 5th edition. I can't tell you how wonderful this book is. It is worth every penny it costs.

    After reading this book and understanding what Holistic Nurse Practice really is, I contacted my State Board of Nursing. As long as I stay within the parameters of my scope of practice as outlined by my BON, not only is it legal for me to be an independent RN with my own practice, but when you read the above handbook, you realize that everything in that book is nothing more than our scope of practice applied. Most all is patient teaching and empowerment: helping people set health goals r/t nutrition, weight loss, smoking cessation, stress reduction, exercise etc. Where you will get into trouble is if you recommend ANY type of "medication" including herbs and vitamins in a pill form. However, if you encourage eating more veggies high in vit B and help a person identify what those veggies are, or if you encourage them to use a wide variety of herbs to flavor their foods, then you are accomplishing the same, but in a holistic way and within our nursing scope of practice. (I hope this ramble makes sense.)

    Now, go to the new draft for Healthy People 2020 and see that health literacy for people will be the main objective for the coming years. Patient teaching! Even Healthy People 2010 has education and community based programs as one of the objectives, but Healthy People 2020 takes it further and proposes that physicians refer patients to a healthcare provider that does patient teaching. "Increase the proportion of people whose doctor recommends personalized health information resources to help them manage their health." and "Personalized health information resources to increase health literacy levels" and "Connect to health outcomes so interventions could be tested for effectiveness." These are just some of the points being worked on for the Healthy People 2020.

    So, getting back to my reason for posting. Let's brainstorm. If we want to have a Holistic Nursing Practice, what do we need to do------and I don't see where we MUST be a APN to do this. I have been a nurse for 16 yrs. I am working on goals of reading and studying over the next year. I can see where I could have business cards and contact physicians about my services. Patients would have to pay for my services out of pocket, but I think there would be patients that would/could do that if my fees were reasonable. Holistic nursing seems to be sort of like a Health coach. I also realized that if I'm going to coach/teach someone on weight loss, I can't need to lose 20 lbs myself. I can't coach/teach nutrition if I'm still eating fries and drinking sodas myself. So, I see that this journey for me will start with ME.

    What are your thoughts????

    Charlee
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  3. Visit  Mudwoman profile page

    About Mudwoman

    Mudwoman has '20' year(s) of experience and specializes in 'Certified Diabetes Educator'. From 'Arkansas'; Joined May '04; Posts: 365; Likes: 152.

    24 Comments so far...

  4. Visit  zahryia profile page
    0
    I love you guys! You really have that entrepreneurial spirit. It never occurred to me that I could be independent as an RN. HerbalNurse, I'll be sending you an email as well.

    Now, Mudwoman, it's interesting what you say about the 'pill form'. I'm assuming we can still recommend loose herbs and teas.
  5. Visit  Mudwoman profile page
    1
    I think you suggest they research some of the benefits of "X" herb or "X" tea such as green tea. You might even have some info that you can give them, but you are not necessarily recommending that they should take "X", just that they should look into it and determine "along with your primary physician whether you can benefit from it". You are focused on teaching and supporting.
    twopeeps04 likes this.
  6. Visit  zahryia profile page
    0
    Quote from Mudwoman
    I think you suggest they research some of the benefits of "X" herb or "X" tea such as green tea. You might even have some info that you can give them, but you are not necessarily recommending that they should take "X", just that they should look into it and determine "along with your primary physician whether you can benefit from it". You are focused on teaching and supporting.
    Geez, its such a tightrope. The reality is that the average physician is not going to be familiar with the herbs that you have the client "look up". They may dismiss it due to lack of knowledge or preconceived ideas of 'alternative' medicines.
  7. Visit  kimi64 profile page
    0
    can i ask a question? For you, what are the benefits of patient teaching? Thanks!
  8. Visit  Brushfire profile page
    0
    I would love to get more information from you. Can you please e-mail me at brushfire5@verizon.net?
  9. Visit  RN4Life2 profile page
    1
    I could not agree more. I am also looking at using my license for health coaching; to help me specialize I am also getting Integrative Health Coach certified with Duke Intergrative. I will be working collaboratively, even with doctors, to decrease secondary risk and work on secondary prevention and into primary prevention. I hope to have some qualitative studies from this. Latter down the road I will be looking at specializing in stress management and perhaps bio feedback. I would like to discus what you are doing and where. I also have a pilot website for posting on prevention (nipp.pro) There are no post yet but this is the first time I have released the web site publicly.
    njoceangirl41 likes this.
  10. Visit  olof profile page
    1
    So, getting back to my reason for posting. Let's brainstorm. If we want to have a Holistic Nursing Practice, what do we need to do------and I don't see where we MUST be a APN to do this. I have been a nurse for 16 yrs. I am working on goals of reading and studying over the next year. I can see where I could have business cards and contact physicians about my services. Patients would have to pay for my services out of pocket, but I think there would be patients that would/could do that if my fees were reasonable. Holistic nursing seems to be sort of like a Health coach. I also realized that if I'm going to coach/teach someone on weight loss, I can't need to lose 20 lbs myself. I can't coach/teach nutrition if I'm still eating fries and drinking sodas myself. So, I see that this journey for me will start with ME.

    What are your thoughts????

    Charlee[/quote]
    Hi there Charlee.

    yes I know, I do love that book but I haven't read it all.
    I am a BS nurse (don't understand what it means to be a RN nurse), graduated 3 years ago and am working in a small rehabilitation hospital in Akureyri, Iceland.
    Yes you could have your private clinic (I want that) and have patient pay you. I do find my rehabilitation nursing like holistic nursing at least the way I do it. And yes we do health teach/coach and guide people into healthier lifestyle and to be more responsible for their health. So we do have to be responsible for our own health so we can help others.
    I usually follow my instinct with my patients and guide them into complimentary therapies if I feel they need to even if it is reiki, bowen or homopatic remedies or diet guidelines.
    I am also using my personal experience more and more to guide my patients and common sence more. patients need it simple and manageble.
    bella201 likes this.
  11. Visit  helenerickson profile page
    0
    Check out ahncc.org for information about certification as a holistic nurse, and vote for nurse coaching. They are interested in your comments.
  12. Visit  PNCC2001 profile page
    2
    Quote from zahryia
    I love you guys! You really have that entrepreneurial spirit. It never occurred to me that I could be independent as an RN. HerbalNurse, I'll be sending you an email as well.

    Now, Mudwoman, it's interesting what you say about the 'pill form'. I'm assuming we can still recommend loose herbs and teas.


    Although herbs are "natural", they need to be treated with respect. Certain herbs interact with certain "medications" and can intensify or decrease their effects. There is a PDR for Herbal Medicine that addresses herb/drug interactions. Although the physicians probably don't refer to it, it is available as a resource that can be used to educate them; and any nurses interested in holistic nursing.
    bella201 and chwcbesteph like this.
  13. Visit  emilyramos profile page
    3
    Olof, I wrote you a grand reply then my browser froze and I lost it

    anyway. I'll write short version of my previous post.

    Holistic nurses may integrate complementary/alternative modalities (CAM) into clinical practice to treat people’s physiological, psychological, and spiritual needs. Doing so does not negate the validity of conventional medical therapies, but serves to complement, broaden, and enrich the scope of nursing practice and to help individuals access their greatest healing potential. http://www.ahna.org/AboutUs/WhatisHo...5/Default.aspx


    a few ideas for nurses would be:

    "Chronic Pain Therapy" = This can be made into a holistic model.

    "Mielu Therapy" = Insurance pays for this mental health treatment and it is very broad. That could be anything that is relaxing.

    I would also like to add that I went to a lady in CA. 2 years ago that had a doctor write prescriptions but she got to do all the complementary stuff. The doctor was cool with it. The patients just paid cash. For a few hundred a month she provided a long list of treatments to complement the doctor's orders. She wasn't even a RN! She was giving me all kinds of nutritional advice and I must say, she really helped me with my digestive disorders by suggesting probiotics. She lost me at "The earth's axis is off" as the reason. If she had not made a comment like that I may have went back.

    Here is a list of types of holistic therapies I found:
    Acupressure
    Aromatherapy
    Ayurvedic Medicine
    Bach Flower Remedies
    beginning Svaroopa Yoga therapy
    Body-Mind Counseling
    Breath Work
    Chronic Pain Management
    Counseling /Psychotherapy
    Crystal/Gem Therapy
    Detoxification
    Dream Therapy
    Energy Work
    Essential Oils
    Guided Imagery
    guided meditation
    Herbology
    Holistic Nurse Consultant
    Intent Technique
    Interactive Imagery
    Jin Shin Do Acupressure Body-Mind Therapy
    life-style coaching
    Meditation
    Neuro-Linguistic Programming
    Nutritional Counseling
    Orthomolecular Medicine
    Reiki
    Relaxation Consulting
    Stress Management
    Therapuetic Touch
    Trigger Point/ Myotherapy
    Visualization
    Yoga Therapy
    bella201, Underoo, and chwcbesteph like this.
  14. Visit  Mudwoman profile page
    2
    I am glad to see that this post is still being read. Since I first posted, I have been researching several avenues. The most promising thing I'm working on is Diabetes Educator. I joined AADE and there is a world of information and help there. Once your diabetes education program is certified, you are able to bill Medicare and the fees work out to about $400 per year per patient net after expenses. There is a fee Medicare pays for 2 group teaching sessions and then up to 10 individual sessions per year. Fees vary by state. It is my understanding that rural areas are especially targeted to develop a diabetes education program. I am still working on getting something going in my area. I am in the state of Arkansas, and through research, I have found that there are 75 counties in Arkansas and 73 of them are designated "rural and underserved". That means there are 73 opportunities for a nurse to develop a teaching program and get it certified and get paid for that effort. There are guidelines as to what must be included in your teaching plan and there is lots of documentation required in order to bill. There are only 8 certified programs currently in my state. Go figure.

    You must be a RN, dietician, pharmacist, social worker with a masters, or a physician to get certified as a Diabetic Educator. As a nurse with a certified program, I would be able to become certified (CDE). I must prove 1000 hours of diabetic educating in a certified program and take a test to do so. I was able to find out about my state's Department of Health quarterly meetings and find a person to invite me. It is important to get as many high ranking people to help you and this is a way to network and do that.

    So, I encourage any of you to start looking into this if it appeals to you. You do not need to have a BSN or Masters or be a nurse practitioner. Start with finding the American Association of Diabetes Educators web site. I started with my own state BON, which lead me to the AADE web site. The AADE membership is a little pricy, but the information and support I have gotten has been more than worth the price. I spent a day contacting people in my state that were listed members of AADE and 2 people contacted me and they were active in the state's Department of Health as well.

    If any of you already have a program going, I would LOVE to hear from you and if any of you know that I'm not understanding all this clearly, please let me know. I am trying to learn all I can about this. If any of the rest of you are like me and would like to start down this road, you can contact me. We can start a support group on here.
    WellDaRN and emilyramos like this.
  15. Visit  emilyramos profile page
    0
    Quote from Mudwoman

    So, I encourage any of you to start looking into this if it appeals to you. You do not need to have a BSN or Masters or be a nurse practitioner. Start with finding the American Association of Diabetes Educators web site. I started with my own state BON, which lead me to the AADE web site. The AADE membership is a little pricy, but the information and support I have gotten has been more than worth the price. I spent a day contacting people in my state that were listed members of AADE and 2 people contacted me and they were active in the state's Department of Health as well.

    If any of you already have a program going, I would LOVE to hear from you and if any of you know that I'm not understanding all this clearly, please let me know. I am trying to learn all I can about this. If any of the rest of you are like me and would like to start down this road, you can contact me. We can start a support group on here.
    Thanks for all the info Mudwoman. I am very interested in more discussions about this. The getting started part of this type of work may actually have more participants in the Nursing entrepreneur section. Nurses who do direct billing might chime in. Let me know if you get a thread started because I would love to participate.


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