VA Nurse Salary

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Mar 16, 2015

I knew you were talking about waivers. Wanting to hire only BSNs is fine. However if the veteran patients are suffering from a lack of competent nurses, while highly competent RNs go un hired because of wanting BSNs they it's a crime of incompetence in administration.
I only work intermittent at the VA, I was hired with an ADN and got promoted to nurse two after a year. Had I not been I would have left and I fill critical shifts in a key roll requiring skills that are hard to come by.
I think my local VA does it's best to mitigate the effects of the BSN preferred policy they have forced on them from D.C., but a lot remains to be desired.

Sounds like your facility definitely does what it can to work with the current restrictions for BSN/NurseII. I wish mine did! No one hired at Nurse I strictly because he/she possessed an ADN is ever promoted to Nurse II in a year. Or two. ONLY at the completion of the actual degree, and that really IS a crime!

I am here because I like my job, even if a promotion might not be on the horizon. I do know that I earn more than many Nurse IIs (because of what I brought to the table when I was in hiring, but no BSN). For me, for now, I'm ok with that. I'm more interested in the $$ bottom line, no matter WHAT they want to call it, but I do understand that's not the same for everyone. If one feels an insult at not boarding at Nurse II when they come with oodles of experience, I completely understand. I, too, felt the sting of insult, but I suppose I was assuaged with enough $$ FOR that experience it didn't keep me from taking the job.

I guess I'm not so sure that RNs are turning down VA simply because they were offered a title of Nurse I instead of Nurse II....I can't say that we have less-competent nurses because the more competent ones have snubbed VA in favor of other facilities. I can just hear/see what's in the wind, and it looks to me like my facility is still a pretty desirable employer, even in the face of many medical facilities and employment options for nurses in the area: we rarely have multiple RN openings, and when we do, they get filled fast. I see ADN, BSN, all coming in, so....I just don't know.

I used to work in the private sector and would see some of the worst nurses working along with some of the best. I think that's also the case here, EXCEPT that I definitely do see "the worst" get booted out of their jobs if they don't cut it. People who think that Federal employment equates with permanent employment haven't met our DON, lol.....or our Director. Neither of these puts up with complaints about nurses' performance. Termination during probation is a very real thing, for those who just plain old aren't up to snuff. My guess is that's the best way they can keep the better care providers here for the Vets; they cut loose those who simply should be dropped.

I think the key is to get them tossed out early on, before probation ends, and they DO become danged near bullet-proof

PMFB-RN, RN · Mar 16, 2015

I guess I'm not so sure that RNs are turning down VA simply because they were offered a title of Nurse I instead of Nurse II...

I can name four very experienced ICU RNs who felt snubbed and didn't accept a position in the MICU for that exact reason. All found better paying jobs quickly. Many more who didn't even apply once word got out that they were likely to only be offered nurse one. Now that MICU is commonly running night shifts where not one single RN staffed has even two years ICU experience. They are depending on their RRT and resource nurses to keep their eye on the unit.

.I can't say that we have less-competent nurses because the more competent ones have snubbed VA in favor of other facilities. I can just hear/see what's in the wind, and it looks to me like my facility is still a pretty desirable employer,

I would say the VA here is about middle of the road employer. Nurses can make more money at other local hospitals and get comparable benefits.

I used to work in the private sector and would see some of the worst nurses working along with some of the best.

I am not used to that. In my main job incompetent nurses are seldom hired due to usual and extensive testing they require. Those who are not good and slip through to get hired get the boot pretty fast.

Unlike the VA I am accustomed to potential hires being put through a variety of tests from PBDS to BCAT to scenario testing in civilian hospitals.

At my main job all new hires who claim to have ICU or ER experience are tested in emergency management, and critical situations in SIM lab in addition to written and video tests like BCAT and BPDS. They get paid to do the testing but their job offer is contingent on them passing. Sometimes nurses who don't pass are hired anyway but into a lower level of care.

I think that's also the case here, EXCEPT that I definitely do see "the worst" get booted out of their jobs if they don't cut it.

I agree that at the local VA they do manage to get rid of most of the worst nurses, and even doctors. Some manage to stick around. More common than incompetent nurses are nurses who just do the minimum to get by. That said there are really a lot of superb and dedicated RNs working there. Just more dead wood than I am used to.

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Mar 16, 2015

I can name four very experienced ICU RNs who felt snubbed and didn't accept a position in the MICU for that exact reason. All found better paying jobs quickly. Many more who didn't even apply once word got out that they were likely to only be offered nurse one. Now that MICU is commonly running night shifts where not one single RN staffed has even two years ICU experience. They are depending on their RRT and resource nurses to keep their eye on the unit.

Yikes! Sounds like a recipe for disaster, that's too bad to hear

Regarding VA and it's "grading" system, who knows, maybe one day they'll catch on and change the way it's done. Then again, this is VA......who are we kidding....it could take a hundred years to fix something! It also sounds pretty area-specific, as what you're experiencing isn't a duplication of what I have; I think it also goes along with the "If you've seen one VA, you've seen one VA" kind of thinking. Still, if Minneapolis COULD have had more qualified RNs but lost them because of the grade/level thing.....it's something I wish TPTB would look at more closely. A shame.

I would say the VA here is about middle of the road employer. Nurses can make more money at other local hospitals and get comparable benefits.

You're lucky, indeed. I'd say money is right about the same; VA can't be the highest payer in area but it can match the rest. Benefits, though....there are three hospitals right in our vicinity who do pay about the same, BUT the benefits are not even close. PTO is the biggest one that RNs who jump from those facilities cite. Sometimes it's the insurance (especially when I'm talking to someone supporting a family, kids). When I worked private sector I never had more than 2 plans to choose from, and in recent years they just were crap, period. Oh, and expensive crap. Which was one of the big reasons I made the jump myself!

I am not used to that. In my main job incompetent nurses are seldom hired due to usual and extensive testing they require. Those who are not good and slip through to get hired get the boot pretty fast.
Unlike the VA I am accustomed to potential hires being put through a variety of tests from PBDS to BCAT to scenario testing in civilian hospitals.
At my main job all new hires who claim to have ICU or ER experience are tested in emergency management, and critical situations in SIM lab in addition to written and video tests like BCAT and BPDS. They get paid to do the testing but their job offer is contingent on them passing. Sometimes nurses who don't pass are hired anyway but into a lower level of care.

Wow, just wow. I have never known of this kind of intensive scrutiny for incoming RN hires, ever. It sure seems like your "regular" employer has a really good thing going, though; must cut down hugely on the "But I thought you knew what the heck you were doing on this unit!!" scenarios. Probably deters the poor candidates from even applying, which is also good for facility. Like I said, my last hospital (before VA) just didn't do anything like that: traditional interviews, a psych eval, a med test any 10th grader should pass (ok, mostly my OPINION on that, but still, darned easy). Credentials check out? That's it.

I agree that at the local VA they do manage to get rid of most of the worst nurses, and even doctors. Some manage to stick around. More common than incompetent nurses are nurses who just do the minimum to get by. That said there are really a lot of superb and dedicated RNs working there. Just more dead wood than I am used to.

Looks like much depends on what else is available, so what the competition is. Here, lots of it, but VA isn't a cakewalk to get into so....we TEND to have better nurses, I think. That, and the Leadership's position on dumping 'dead wood'

About those who are at the minimum, just getting by? THAT we definitely have, in spades, once they get past their 2-year probation. Which is sad, but like I said, I have seen the same thing in the private sector (where turnover was greater).

Every now and then some doc will get all full of himself/herself without the skill to back it up ('But I'm the DOCTOR!!") and bang: out the door. Those are kinda nice to see, I'll admit :)

pfchang · Mar 17, 2015

Regarding Nurse I And Nurse II, isn't there a maximum salary at Nurse I which is much lower than the max at Nurse II? I am unsure of the details, but I think once you reach all the steps in the grade, the only way you can increase your salary is with COLA ( this year 1%) or to move to the next grade? I know Nurse IIs who aren't bothering to get Master's degrees bc it's not an automatic upgrade to Nurse III at our facility. Even with a Master's it's very hard to move out of Nurse II. Same thing with Nurse I---once you get to the top, you're stuck at that salary even if you are charge, have extraordinary skills, leadership, etc.

There is one other way to get a step increase which is by achieving certification in a specialty area. This is also facility- dependent, though. The Step increase is VA-wide but there is also a bonus which can be awarded which varies from facility to facility. Why should that be different at different facilities? It's the same test, for goodness sake.

I have heard that many other facilities are more supportive of development and retention of RNs than my facility.

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Mar 17, 2015

Regarding Nurse I And Nurse II, isn't there a maximum salary at Nurse I which is much lower than the max at Nurse II? I am unsure of the details, but I think once you reach all the steps in the grade, the only way you can increase your salary is with COLA ( this year 1%) or to move to the next grade? I know Nurse IIs who aren't bothering to get Master's degrees bc it's not an automatic upgrade to Nurse III at our facility. Even with a Master's it's very hard to move out of Nurse II. Same thing with Nurse I---once you get to the top, you're stuck at that salary even if you are charge, have extraordinary skills, leadership, etc.
There is one other way to get a step increase which is by achieving certification in a specialty area. This is also facility- dependent, though. The Step increase is VA-wide but there is also a bonus which can be awarded which varies from facility to facility. Why should that be different at different facilities? It's the same test, for goodness sake.
I have heard that many other facilities are more supportive of development and retention of RNs than my facility.

Your VA and mine sound similar in that they just DON'T want to promote via waiver, kinda no matter WHAT kind of nurse and WHAT kind of great things they have done. Makes them "valuable" but not "promotion-worthy". Stupid.

As for the NI/NII maxes.....well, I'd assume that of course the max of Nurse I would be lower than the max of Nurse II....but the thing is no one comes in at the max of anything. People are surprisingly free with sharing details of their grades/levels/steps, so I'm absolutely sure that I make more than quite a good number of Nurse IIs; I'm nowhere near capped so I have a lot of room to keep making more than them

Specialty certification is an option I plan to pursue; it's really just a one-time bonus, not a big one either, but WTH.

It is frustrating, though, to put forth what my supervisor is certain is a clear-cut 'You Are Getting Promoted!' kind of evaluation, only to find that the Standards Board has a different take. And THEY aren't working with me, THEY don't know what I've done to earn that promotion (my supervisor obviously does and is happy to recommend it!). But I haven't yet earned that BSN, so....I have a couple of unchecked boxes. And you cannot be promoted without ALL the boxes being checked, if you are expecting the education waiver. So I'm "outstanding" but "not ready for promotion at this time".

What a crock.

pfchang · Mar 17, 2015

Specialty certification is a step increase with a possible bonus, dependent upon who's doing the reviewing. Check out SAA info.

I totally get what you're saying about having the support of your manager but not getting it from the board. Who better to evaluate the scope of your performance than your manager? Yes, it is a crock.

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Mar 17, 2015

Specialty certification is a step increase with a possible bonus, dependent upon who's doing the reviewing. Check out SAA info.
I totally get what you're saying about having the support of your manager but not getting it from the board. Who better to evaluate the scope of your performance than your manager? Yes, it is a crock.

I will, thanks. I was told it was a bonus only, so went with that. Guess I'll find out when I get to the point of looking into testing!

PMFB-RN, RN · Mar 17, 2015

Specialty certification is a step increase with a possible bonus, dependent upon who's doing the reviewing. Check out SAA info.

More accurately, certification MAY result in a step increase. This depends entirely on the facility. My local VA used to give step increases for certification. They stopped in 2012 and we are told they are NEVER coming back. Now you get a one time bonus. It had greatly reduced the motivation to get certified among many nurses. It's disheartening to learn that you buddy got a step increase, worth about $2500/year for the rest of their career, and you just get $1K once and the test cost you $300 and the bonus is taxed higher than wages so the $1K bonus ends up being about $300.

SnakeEyes · Mar 17, 2015

I hope this isn't a common point of contention in the VA workplace. Coming from military nursing, our pay scale is a matter of public knowledge like the VA and GS schedules. If someone were so interested they could look up what the newbies all the way up to the surgeon general were making. It was never an issue unless someone wasn't pulling their weight or was just plain dangerous. Is that the issue here?

pfchang · Mar 17, 2015

More accurately, certification MAY result in a step increase. This depends entirely on the facility. My local VA used to give step increases for certification. They stopped in 2012 and we are told they are NEVER coming back. Now you get a one time bonus. It had greatly reduced the motivation to get certified among many nurses. It's disheartening to learn that you buddy got a step increase, worth about $2500/year for the rest of their career, and you just get $1K once and the test cost you $300 and the bonus is taxed higher than wages so the $1K bonus ends up being about $300.

Wow, I guess I stand corrected. I thought the step increase for certification was one thing which was standard across the VA. This is really disheartening. There is so much variability everywhere. They wonder why they can not keep nurses new to the VA ( who don't have the years of retirement monies to keep them there).

icunurseforlife · May 6, 2015

This is a little late... HA! Do you work 80 hours per two weeks??

But we figured out something that was kind of crazy the other day....

Since we work 80 hours every two weeks, thats an extra 8 hours per two weeks than what the community hospitals work. That totals an extra 208 hours per year. Divide 208 hours by 40 hours, what does that equal... 5.2 weeks. SO! Yes, we get 5 weeks of vacation per year, but we are also WORKING an extra 5.2 weeks per year than the community. I had never thought of it this way, but it blew my mind!

If you drop your 8 hour shift, are you still considered full time in relation to benefits?

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · May 6, 2015

This is a little late... HA! Do you work 80 hours per two weeks??
But we figured out something that was kind of crazy the other day....
Since we work 80 hours every two weeks, thats an extra 8 hours per two weeks than what the community hospitals work. That totals an extra 208 hours per year. Divide 208 hours by 40 hours, what does that equal... 5.2 weeks. SO! Yes, we get 5 weeks of vacation per year, but we are also WORKING an extra 5.2 weeks per year than the community. I had never thought of it this way, but it blew my mind!
If you drop your 8 hour shift, are you still considered full time in relation to benefits?

Ok.....what?

Private sector hospital RNs who work 8 hour shifts (I should say, get paid for 8 hour shifts, as they are usually scheduled for 8.5 hours to compensate for lunch) work 80 hours in two weeks. Those who work 12's will either work 72 in two weeks or 80 if they have a facility that likes scheduling an additional 12 every other week to make it up to 80. Same as VA. A private sector facility can determine 72 hours is full time, or make it 80 for the purposes of determining benefits, but they are only being paid for what they are working. Same as VA.

Whatever a private sector nurse works, schedule-wise, he/she STILL only gets XX amount of PTO. If a VA nurse works the SAME schedule.....he/she gets a shade over 5 weeks AL, 10 Fed holidays, umptyfive SL days, etc.

How do you figure they are working less hours but being paid for more hours?

Actually, your post reminded me of a joke email that used to go around, something like "oh, so you want to request a day off? Well, let's see... there are XX hours in a day, you spend XX time at work, but XX time for lunch...XX time for coffee breaks...XX time asleep...XX time on vacation..etc etc....(and the "math" worked out to exactly ONE day a year the employee worked)....so I'll be danged if you're going to take that one day off!!"