career advice for potential military nurse

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I have a few sincere questions about nursing in the military, and as I've read around on these forums for a few weeks, I believe I've come to the right place to ask them. Forgive me if I give a long explanation of my situation. :)

I am currently 32 years old and in my second career and contemplating moving to a third. I have a B.S. in Biology and have spent 4-5 years in biological lab research and teaching in a university environment. In the intervening 10 years since I graduated, I also worked for 6 years in the computer field as a software programmer. Neither of these professions has completely satisfied me and I'm ready to make another move. I've long considered a career in the health professions, but never really known how or when to make the transition. I went so far as to become a licensed phlebotomist, but found the monotony to be overwhelming. I've volunteered a fair amount in hospital ERs as well, so I feel I have a small amount of exposure to the health care setting.

I considered going back to medical school, but having too many friends who went down that road was enough to convince me that I don't want to spend 7+ years before I start a career. I've also thought about going to Physician Assistant school as well as nursing. One of the things I like about the health care field is that I could (theoretically) get a job just about anywhere, including working internationally. I love traveling and if I could find a way to have a great job and travel at the same time, I think that would be ideal. This naturally lead me to thinking about military service. But as I was thinking about it, I realized that many (if not most) medical service personnel are probably stationed in VA hospitals or bases around the U.S. Of course there is nothing wrong with that, but I'm not sure if I would be happy with it.

So I guess my first question (yes there is a question amid all this typing...) is, what proportion of medical service members are stationed outside the U.S.? (either in foreign bases or active deployment sites) If that is really what I'm interested in, is it easy to get assigned to such posts, or do most people want that? (meaning it would be competitive and not guaranteed)

My second question is, how common/easy is it for medical service members to get advanced degrees? I'm not just talking about an Army nurse getting trained in sub-specialties, but rather getting a degree in Public Health or Health Care Administration, or Foreign Policy, etc..? I consider myself to be a lifelong learner and would be disappointed if my opportunities to grow and advance would be limited.

Anyway, if you've gotten this far, thanks for reading and providing any insight you might have!

-Chris

DanznRN, RN

441 Posts

Specializes in ER, Trauma, US Navy.

Chris-

First off, no active military personnel are stationed at VA hospitals, those are staffed by civilian nurses. The military branches have there own hospitals all over the country and world to care for the active duty members and the families. Most active military are stationed at these facilities or deployed with operational units. Second, there are opportunities for graduate degrees in the Navy, that's what I'm in. I just graduated from grad school in December from the University of Maryland. Mind you, you have to compete for them and not everyone gets to go. Even if the Navy/ military doesn't send you, you will be eligible for the GI Bill and can pay for it that way. Keep the questions coming.

LCDR Dan

Specializes in L&D, mother/baby, antepartum.
Chris-

Even if the Navy/ military doesn't send you, you will be eligible for the GI Bill and can pay for it that way.

LCDR Dan

LCDR Dan,

Could you explain to me how the GI bill works? I know when I get to OTS (AF) I have to choose whether or not I wish to participate but I'm not sure exactly what it will do for me and how much I will have to pay into it. I've looked at the GI Bill website and it's not real clear on the details. How much money do you pay in? How is school paid for when you use it?

Chris, I don't mean to hijack your thread by asking this. Hopefully the answers will help you too.

DanznRN, RN

441 Posts

Specializes in ER, Trauma, US Navy.

No problem, here's the basics. You get to OTS,OIS for us Squids and you sign up to participate. When I did it you paid $100 for 12 months to get the benefit, my wife joined in 2003 and it was still $100/ 12 months. Things may have changed, but the basics are you pay into it for a year. Once you have paid into it you are eligible for the benefit. Now how much you actually get depends on whether you are taking full-time or part-time credits, what kind of program your in and what school you go to, the VA decides that. My wife has been using her GI Bill currently while on active duty to get her Master's. Her school sends a certification of attendance/ registration to the VA and then the VA pays the school accordingly. You can use your GI Bill anytime while on active duty or you can use for up to 10 years if you get out of the service. I plan to use my once I retire so I can go to school for something fun, like welding or car building, the Navy already paid for my Master's so I'm good. Also once you pay the initial $1200 you can pay, I think, $800 more and get more benefits, not sure how that part works, but a friend did it. Hope this helps.

LCDR Dan

allnurses Guide

wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA

5,125 Posts

Specializes in Anesthesia.
Chris-

First off, no active military personnel are stationed at VA hospitals, those are staffed by civilian nurses. The military branches have there own hospitals all over the country and world to care for the active duty members and the families.

LCDR Dan

Dan,

This is mostly correct, but you know the military/AF they like to throw a monkey wrench in everything. Nellis AFB hospital is actually a joint venture hospital between the AF and the local VA. http://www.nellis.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet_print.asp?fsID=4073&page=1 There is also talk of having more joint VA/military hospitals and more shared services. To give you an example Keesler AFB hospital before hurricane Katrina used to take all the VA MI patients from the local Biloxi VA, and after the storm a big group of AF medical personell were assigned at the Biloxi VA for several months doing manning assist.

Although, I don't know of any active-duty persons actually being stationed at a VA hospital.

DanznRN, RN

441 Posts

Specializes in ER, Trauma, US Navy.

Interesting, didn't know that, thanks. Regarding active duty personnel at VAs, I did remember one thing. The Navy closed Great Lakes Naval Medical Center a few years back. When they did, the active people there were shifted to the VA for a time. Not sure if you can get stationed there anymore or what, but it did happen. So Chris, although it has happened, it's the exception not the rule, at least in the Navy. Learn something new everyday, thanks again.

LCDR Dan

Guest43184

39 Posts

Elmendorf AFB (Anchorage, AK) is also a joint venture AF/VA but not quite as large an integration as Nellis.

tanzbodeli

2 Posts

Thanks for the replies. That info about the GI bill helps as does the other information.

Since I've been thinking about military medicine, I've also read some of the forums over at studentdoctor.net:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=72

And I have to say there is a major tone of negatively and unhappiness among the active duty doctors who are currently serving. There is also a consistent theme of mass exodus of doctors following their service commitments.

I haven't seen the same kind of negativity though here (or in other allied health forums related to military medicine). Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue: why doctors seems overwhelmingly unhappy with the military system whereas other health professionals aren't?

DanznRN, RN

441 Posts

Specializes in ER, Trauma, US Navy.

Personal opinion: doctors are doctors, their ability to be premadonnas is severely limited in the military vs. civilian. See in the military it is very possible for a nurse to out rank a doctor. For instance, an intern (0-1) or resident (0-3) may be working in my department, let's say he/she wants to do something completely unnecessary to the patient for whatever reason. Something a nurse would find not needed for the patient's care. If I see it and say "we're not going to do it" he has to listen to me because I'm an 0-4, rank has it's privileges. I'm oversimplifying it, but the military levels the playing field between doctors and nurses, they have less control. It's something that hasn't come up before, but it's something that puts a smile on my face. Also, doctors can make a lot more money on the outside, even though they get HUGE bonuses, in the Navy at least. Only the truly committed doctors stick it out and they are few and far between. Again, that's my .02 cents, other opinions may vary.

LCDR Dan

Miss Mab

414 Posts

Specializes in mostly in the basement.

I also enjoy the other forum (not just the mil-med but many others as I enjoy engaging with all of the "team" members and usually there is a pretty good mix over there even if it is geared toward med students). I do especially like the mil-med and mil-dental as I am relatively new to the service and this forum isn't quite as active as over there. We do okay, though! :) i'm looking forward to gaining more personal experience to back up my ramblings....

That being said:

: why doctors seems overwhelmingly unhappy with the military system whereas other health professionals aren't?

I think the Major above me hit it pretty square on the mark. Though I'll grant they do believe there are some gripes that truly are grounded in genuine patient care concern, the majority(the GREAT majority) of the issues they recycle ad nauseum are about "others", mainly nurses, who are 'allowed' to actually function in the role that that they were educated for and who somehow, by virtue of existence and close proximity, serve as a constant affront to their oversall superiority. They express great umbrage that a mere nurse would have any input into a plan of care or that, yes, most grievously, an RN may outrank them and thus be allowed to actually give them orders.

I'm not kidding, that is the source of the majority of their expressed unhappiness. I try to cut them some slack, generally, by remembering that these budding docs have never practiced medicine in the civilian world. They have basically been educated inside a bubble. Even if they landed a civilian residency and so spent some time away from the military they were still functioning under the educational model so they have no real clue or comparison to how things actually are out in the "real world."

It almost seems like these poor folks, once out, are anticipating practicing under some old school vision they still hold of healthcare(y'know, before HMO's, Mid-levels, JCAHO,EMTALA) when the whole 'captain of the ship' philosophy reigned mightily and that they now don't seems aware doesn't quite exist anymore. I kinda feel sorry for them sometimes.

We all know the tangible rewards of pursuing medicine have begun to decline in recent years. Perhaps this weighty awareness becomes more acute the closer one gets to completing formal medical education. FWIW, the dentists on the whole are much more positive about the miltary services in general.

Also, many of them do admit they're just plain old peeved watching old med school friends greatly surpassing their monetary and professional achievements while they are "stuck" fulfilling their military commitments.

Again, I kinda feel bad for them.

However, under that same outdated 'I am God' view that some express, it is actually disappointing to see such open and blatant hostility vented toward co-workers (again, pretty much nurses only) and fellow officers.

In a threas just yesterday, which I don't think any RN had engaged, I certainly hadn't, this was posted by a (thankfully) soon-to-separate AF physician:

"The coven are nurses. They are not doctors. They only care about their rank and making the next rank. They are pathetic pieces of dogs#it that only serve to undermine good patient care.... Military nurses are pure f*&*ing evil. They are the devil incarnate.

The coven are referred to by their rank. Since they have no title of any importance whatsoever, that is all we can call them... besides bi#%$hes."

Sorry ladies, think this one is taken......Classy fellow, eh?

Look, nobody becomes a BSN these days without knowing there are still plenty of throwbacks out there who not only hold no regard for the nursing profession but who also feel strangely free to spew inaccuracies and insults about who or why a colllege student today would choose such a career path. Sadly, no one small group holds the monopoly on baseless insult hurling while at the same time lacking the intellectual curiosity or sense of maturity to gather adequate knowledge to back such vitriol.

Again, whatever......

What did disturb me, though, was that no fewer than 12 active duty military officers were participating in that thread and that misogynistic and hostile rant/tantrum quoted above appeared to be accepted as nothing more than very much business as usual. By that I mean it just went by un-remarked upon. Tacit agreement apparently...I just found it so pathetic.

Anyway. Your question just seemed very timely so forgive my lengthy attempt to properly answer.

All it really did for me was again remind me why I am so grateful that my nurse AFSC falls under the OPS command and does not interact much with the mil-med side.

Selfish, ain't I?

Terpole

118 Posts

Question out there for active/retired duty nurses.

What's a quick comparison between civilian hospitals and military hospitals?

and

Anybody out there retired from the military as a nurse or did more than 10 years? If I could, i would be interested in looking at being an career military RN as opposed to doing just a few years or so.

DanznRN, RN

441 Posts

Specializes in ER, Trauma, US Navy.

Military hospital vs. civilian hospital the difference is everyone is/was or belongs to someone in the military. Beyond that, a hospital is a hospital and I'm not trying to be a smart-a. I invited a member from the board to meet with me and get a tour, he to was expecting something different and remarked, "it's just a regular hospital." I said, "yep, they are no different" only the patient population. I've been in for almost 11 years, got out once for 11 months, now doing the career thing. How can I help?

As for the response to the doctor question, that would be the longer version, albeit pretty accurate. Some notions will never change...

LCDR Dan

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