No Oxygen or Suction in dining room...normal? - page 2

by nervousnurse

2,397 Views | 18 Comments

Hi, I'm new to LTC and wondered if your facility has oxygen and/or suction either IN the dining room or very close by? I realize we can perform the Heimlich for FOOD choking; I am more concerned about LIQUID choking if they... Read More


  1. 0
    Quote from CrunchRN
    "In my facility, we are under strict orders not to perform any form of CPR on the residents, even if choking, even if they do not have a DNR order, we just call 911"

    Annie - do you worry at all that not doing CPR may put you in a legally risky position if there is not a DNR order? Is this common in LTC? Not that I disagree with it, but I would worry someone would sue me for not performing up to RN standards. I think it would be good to not do CPR on all nursing home residents honestly, but I would worry that family would not feel that way.
    That was the initial reaction of the all the RN's when we were told, but the families and residents are made aware of this at admission.The contract of admission states clearly that if they wish to not sign the DNR that no CPR is performed by the nurses, but 911 is to be called asap. I'm not sure why this decision came to light, but I'm sure it's a legal issue.

    We have the union on our side, which I'm a part of... We discussed it and it seems we can't be touched if this is contracted. Many facilities that now have this.
  2. 0
    I find some of the statements in the previous postings hard to believe, especially the one that stated, "if someone needs CPR, we call 911 and wait for EMS to arrive"
    May I ask, if you are a licensed medical professional, why would you NOT start CPR? I'm pretty certain all licensed healthcare personnel are trained in CPR.
    I find it hard to believe that your just going to stand there and do NOTHING, I'd not want to be in your shoes when you have to tell the family member that their loved one died because YOU stood around waiting for EMS to arrive, wouldn't want you taking care of me or my family.
  3. 0
    A union contract will NOT prevent someone from suing you. Family members can say they were coerced into signing that contract. Anyone can do CPR...you don't have to be a licensed healthcare professional.
  4. 0
    I'm just saying what I'm told to do at my job. This particular situation never happened on my shift so I can't say what I would do, but I have thought about it. I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers.

    This is just answering a question. Please don't take a stab at my competences as a nurse.
  5. 0
    Quote from CapeCodMermaid
    A union contract will NOT prevent someone from suing you. Family members can say they were coerced into signing that contract. Anyone can do CPR...you don't have to be a licensed healthcare professional.
    I'm not talking about the union contract, I'm talking about the admissions contract and the living will, which is signed at admission. The nursing union suports it.
  6. 0
    Oh, you better believe that you "can be touched" by not providing CPR to a patient without a DNR order. The contract that the families sign cover the FACILITY, not the nurse. You would be in hot water with the BON for not providing CPR if a family/ER/paramedic reported an issue. Why do nurses believe that it's ok if the facility says so...check with your BON, I'll bet you'll be surprised by their answer. OT, but I've seen many LTC facilities tell their nursing staff/CNAs erroneous information about care procedures/scope of practice, etc. It is always up to each individual nurse to understand BON standards and legal responsibilities. Please be proactive and dig further into this with the BON BEFORE something happens on your shift and you have moments to decide. If the facility does not want CPR performed, then they should only admit patients with DNR orders.
    Last edit by dream'n on Mar 9, '13
  7. 0
    Quote from anniern2010
    I'm just saying what I'm told to do at my job. This particular situation never happened on my shift so I can't say what I would do, but I have thought about it. I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers.

    This is just answering a question. Please don't take a stab at my competences as a nurse.
    I didn't see any posts here saying anything about YOUR competency. And of course discussing whether or not to do CPR is going to ruffle feathers. Contract or not...nurses' union or not, if I were the RN there, I would make sure there was a VALID signed DNR order or I would start CPR.
  8. 0
    Quote from dream'n
    Oh, you better believe that you "can be touched" by not providing CPR to a patient without a DNR order. The contract that the families sign cover the FACILITY, not the nurse. You would be in hot water with the BON for not providing CPR if a family/ER/paramedic reported an issue. Why do nurses believe that it's ok if the facility says so...check with your BON, I'll bet you'll be surprised by their answer. OT, but I've seen many LTC facilities tell their nursing staff/CNAs erroneous information about care procedures/scope of practice, etc. It is always up to each individual nurse to understand BON standards and legal responsibilities.
    I think that maybe I should be clear here... I am practicing in Canada. The nursing union "AIIC" for Canada and the "AIINB" for my province are who represent me.

    I am VP for the union at my facility, I checked with them, if that's the facility's policy then, I'm protected...

    And like I said, this has never happened before, and I think it's because all of the nurses and dieticians keep a close eye on the diet/consistency of the resident's food. Heaven forbid something happens, i'll assess and do what I think is right. Thanks for looking out
  9. 0
    Quote from CapeCodMermaid
    I didn't see any posts here saying anything about YOUR competency. And of course discussing whether or not to do CPR is going to ruffle feathers. Contract or not...nurses' union or not, if I were the RN there, I would make sure there was a VALID signed DNR order or I would start CPR.
    CapeCodMermaid-this is what I was refering to------> "I find it hard to believe that your just going to stand there and do NOTHING, I'd not want to be in your shoes when you have to tell the family member that their loved one died because YOU stood around waiting for EMS to arrive, wouldn't want you taking care of me or my family."

    The people on here, instead of giving their opinion and letting others give theirs, are focused on making the posters feel as I am feeling now, defensive. I am a great nurse with a tremendous amount of caring. I'm not about to let someone choke to death.

    I understand why you would think that my facility's policy is absurd.

    All I did was answer the original question.


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