Drug Testing

[CapeCodMermaid]

Do any of your facilities do drug testing before hire or randomly throughout the year? What do you typically test for and is the presence of any drug enough to exclude someone? I'd hate to miss out on a good nurse because he smoked marijuana once or twice.

[Magsulfate, BSN, RN]

well thank you for clarifying. So would you think that someone who is early in the recovery process might want to wait until later to become a nurse or a bartender or a pharmacist? Like I said im sure it can be done and has been done all the time, just wondering what the limitations would be. Thanks for the info.

There are no certain limitations that a recovering nurse could go by, and each person's recovery is individual. Contrary to what some people might believe, a nurse going back to work as a nurse after a good recovery program and some time, (months to maybe years, depending on the nurse) the work itself is therapy and good recovery for him/her. To go back to life as a nurse, maybe not in the same setting, but maybe so, it helps in the recovery process.

For me, it was a daily reminder of who I am and what I believe in.. and these nurses go back to work under the guidance of a peer assistance program for several years. These programs can be VERY useful tools in recovery and the nurse MUST be in good recovery, following each and every rule. These programs not in place because we have a nursing shortage and need all the nurses we can get ... despite what some people might think. I know that sounds rediculous doesn't it? But the programs are there to help these recovering nurses become an asset to the profession. Nine times out of ten the recovering nurse is one of the best nurses you will ever work with. I will explain some of the reasons why...

The recovering nurse is grateful for her life, her career and her sobriety. She loves her profession, otherwise she would have given it up before going through the hoops of fire that the state board made her go through to recover and keep her license and continue working as a nurse. She has humbled herself to knowing she is powerless but can use her skills to help others in a way that a non-recovering nurse could ever imagine. Just like with any life experience, it brings out the best and the worst... and those nurses that succeed through the peer assistance program will go on to work beside you.. even though you may NEVER know,, , they're are there.

I hope I explained myself so that you can understand. I have left some out.. as there is so much more to know. I don't want to write a book.. several people already have :) :)

[izeofblu1973]

Thanks for the info and good luck on your recovery. great job!

[Dixiecup]

I am an ADON at a LTC. I am partially responsible for hiring staff. We do pre-employment drug testing at our facility. And I agree with CCM, I am not going to pass up hiring someone for the occasional use of marijuana. What I have done in the past is confronted the person about the positive test and tell them they will be re-tested in a month and I expect them to have a clean test at that time.

Let the flames begin.

[Magsulfate, BSN, RN]

I am an ADON at a LTC. I am partially responsible for hiring staff. We do pre-employment drug testing at our facility. And I agree with CCM, I am not going to pass up hiring someone for the occasional use of marijuana. What I have done in the past is confronted the person about the positive test and tell them they will be re-tested in a month and I expect them to have a clean test at that time.

Let the flames begin.

Okay, I decide not to discuss this. Considering I like to remain professional. I think I'm ending my participation in this thread ... :) have fun :)

[Michaelxy]

I am an ADON at a LTC. I am partially responsible for hiring staff. We do pre-employment drug testing at our facility. And I agree with CCM, I am not going to pass up hiring someone for the occasional use of marijuana. What I have done in the past is confronted the person about the positive test and tell them they will be re-tested in a month and I expect them to have a clean test at that time.

Let the flames begin.

Okay, so exactly how do you determine whether someone is an occasional user? If a person does show pos for drug use on the test, what exact criterion do you use to determine casual or otherwise? Really, I am curious, is your tester able to measure concentration levels or some other form to make this "Casual user" determination?

Is it not your responsibility to ensure that the people you hire are competent, drug free and will remain so under your supervision?

Have you considered the ramifications of knowingly hiring a supposedly "Casual user" and that casual user screws up? I think you know the answer to that.

[morte, LPN, LVN]

i have my asbestos suit on..... i am wondering if those of you in recovery feel the need of the threat of random drug testing to help in maintaining your sobriety?.....because i have indeed known persons who were pot smokers and maintained regular employment.....none known to me in nursing, though i have suspected.....

[sissiesmama, ASN, RN]

i have my asbestos suit on..... i am wondering if those of you in recovery feel the need of the threat of random drug testing to help in maintaining your sobriety?.....because i have indeed known persons who were pot smokers and maintained regular employment.....none known to me in nursing, though i have suspected.....

Hey Morte - I am in recovery and have been since 1999. In working in the hospital setting, it is indeed a deterrent to have the possibility of a drug screen in case of a "slip". I have been called for a drug screen while at work on 2 occassions after a ward clerk saw me taking my meds. She had been clued in about my drug history by our DON. I was working at a specialty hospital with about 50 beds. Both times she witnessed me taking my BP med. My UDS was negative, and she was terminated not too long after my 2nd drug screen for a dirty drug screen. Imagine that.

One of the girls who entered the program after me was caught after a dirty drug screen. Sweet girl, and a wonderful nurse, but ...

Anne, RNC

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

Is it not your responsibility to ensure that the people you hire are competent, drug free and will remain so under your supervision?

Competent, yes. Drug free? Why? Not everyone who takes a pain med is an addict and not everyone who has a drink on occasion is an alcoholic.

[tewdles, RN]

I recently worked with an RN who submitted to a random drug screen when the employer requested it. She tested pos for MJ and immed lost her job and her ability to practice nursing. She is a grandma who had "revisited" the 70s with some old friends at a birthday celebration (they were celebrating the big 55) the weekend before. She lost her job and her ability to work for more than one year, because they smoked a joint rather than drink martinis.

She was ashamed and embarrassed. She, of course, had to jump through all of the appropriate hoops in order to get re-employed. She is unable to return to hospice field work because of it. Will this experience change the way she lives her life, yeah, she probably will never let her guard down again...but was that the intent? Hospice lost a wonderful nurse.

Certainly no professional is going to condone the use of substances during work hours which would impair mentation. It is unfortunate, however, that otherwise excellent nurses (or other professionals) are sacrificed for something which most likely in no way affects their ability to do their jobs safely and competently.

I don't want to work with persons who have substance abuse problems. When there are problems it is generally evident...tardiness, absenteism, incomplete or inadequate work, mood swings, interpersonal problems, etc...we all have seen these things in coworkers, friends, family, or acquaintences. I will intervene AT ANY TIME that I fear a professional is impaired on the clock...it is my job. I just don't really care if they drink or smoke on their time off.

And I continue to believe that random testing (no cause or suspicion of wrong doing) is not okay. Where do we get to draw the line as citizens of the USA?

Just because I have nothing to fear doesn't mean that I should have agree to be subjected to a search.

[tewdles, RN]

One further reminder of the rights and freedoms that we are SUPPOSED to enjoy as American citizens...the 4th amendment to our constitution...

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Random drug testing, without cause is unconstitutional, IMHO.

[debRN0417]

I disagree with "random" drug tests. You should be tested only for cause and it better be good cause. I have had to go for random drug testing when there was diversion in a place I worked at many years ago. They loaded all of us nurses up in a van and took us to a out-patient lab. There we were, the administrator in his three piece suit in front, and the corporate dude in his three piece suit in the back and all us nurses in the middle lined up going in this lab- looked more like the pimps and their "ladies of the night" than nurses going for a drug test. Frankly, I was embarrased, although I had done nothing wrong. I think it was the way it was handled because we were called at home and told we were having a"Mandatory meeting" and if you didn't show up you would be immediately fired....Most places now have the agreement you sign when you are hired that you can be subject to random testing, so you really have no choice if you want the job.

[Michaelxy]

One further reminder of the rights and freedoms that we are SUPPOSED to enjoy as American citizens...the 4th amendment to our constitution...

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Random drug testing, without cause is unconstitutional, IMHO.

Just to play devils advocate in this long debated issue. In the U.S versus Von Raab, 489 U.S. 656 (1989). The U.S. Supreme court decided public safety outweighed the individuals right and expectation to privacy.

the Court held that the government is allowed to conduct drug tests without individualized suspicion when there is a "special need" that outweighs the individual's privacy interest. In Skinner, the court found that public safety was such a special need.

reference 1

For the medical field many cases have been brought to court arguing the 4th violation. The Von Raab case was used as precedence to open the argument In 1991 CA, AFGE vs. Derwinsky. Ca ruled that certain medical professionals, nurses included were also found to be safety sensitive and therefore bound to submit to drug testing in best interest of public safety. Just thought I would throw that out there as food for thought :)