Why Not Just Do A Bsn Program??? - page 4

I'm sure that I am going to get ripped for this one but I am just curious. Whats the point of doing an ADN program? I mean, are you really going to be as competent as a BSN nurse? Considering the... Read More

  1. by   suzy253
    Quote from HU_nurse
    I mean, are you really going to be as competent as a BSN nurse?

    BE gentle...
    Just had to reply here although it irks me. Time, financial, etc. etc. all comes into account. But I did not chose the BSN nor the ADN. I'm in a diploma program. From what I gather, the BSN 1st 2 years are all the 'management' type courses (?), history, art...?? and then you spend 2 years on nursing theory/clinical. OK in my THREE year diploma program you better believe we learn nursing theory, separate courses for dosage calculations, anatomy, physiology, micro, pharmacology and we are starting clinical after a little more than a month in the program. We therefore have 3-years of hands on as compared to 2 years in a BSN??? So yes, even lolely diploma grads will be 'as competent'?? (more, I would say). Plus the NCLEX pass rate in my school is 100%. hmmmmm.....I guess they are preparing very very competent nurses...RN's that is! Wouldnt trade it for anything.
  2. by   Cherish
    So yes, even lolely diploma grads will be 'as competent'?? (more, I would say). Plus the NCLEX pass rate in my school is 100%. hmmmmm.....I guess they are preparing very very competent nurses...RN's that is! Wouldnt trade it for anything.
    LOL, Totally agree with you, even though I'm currently a BSN student, lol. I personally think schools need more clinicals, and that you will end up to be a VERY competent nurse. Good Luck
  3. by   Kabin
    Quote from suzy253
    From what I gather, the BSN 1st 2 years are all the 'management' type courses (?), history, art...??
    Nope. The first 2 years of the BSN are all pre-reqs such as chemistry, math, biology, A&P I/II, microbiology, health care ethics, stats, lifespan development, healthcare organizations, english, logic, etc..

    I think the next two years are dedicated to clinicals. But at least the final two years are dedicated, in other words, time isn't shared learning about pre-req material. I'd suspect rotation hours aren't that far apart.
  4. by   smk1
    Quote from HU_nurse
    Well then maybe that's the problem, that BSN's are hired under the capacity. I mean think about it, there must be something that I learned as a BSN nurse that an ADN nurse didnt learn b/c i went to school longer. I mean ADN nurses only go to school about a year longer that LPN's and yet they still make more. No matter how you slice it, its not fair and that is why I will only do my required one year of bedside nursing and go further in my education....there will always be a shortage as long as we use this kind of logic...*sighs...

    the point i was trying to make was that a staff RN is a distinct job description differing from a staff lpn job description. Legally there isn't anything that an lpn can do that a RN can't do. The scope of practice is different. Regardless of actual years of education, a bsn and adn have the same scope of actual practice. Meaning, you won't find a bsn held to different standards per the Board of nursing. It doesn't truly have anything to do with the "years" of training, it has to do with what you are licensed for. In that sense, for a staff nurse position the scope of practice is equal, therefore the compensation is the same. bsn diploma and adn are all licensed simply as RN's. Lpn's even if they have an associates degree are licensed as LPN's so automatically their actual licensed role is different which is the reasoning behind the difference in pay.
  5. by   CarVsTree
    Quote from HU_nurse
    I mean, are you really going to be as competent as a BSN nurse? Considering the fact that I am in a BSN program and I can barely keep up with all of the tons of info that they throw at us, I wonder how you can possible obtain all that info in a ADN program.
    BE gentle...
    I'll be much more gentle than you were.

    Yes, I'm sure I'll be as competent as a BSN educated nurse. We take the same boards and do as many if not more clinical hours.

    The BSN programs in my area on average cost $12,000/yr. The ADN program is $100/credit (about $1600/yr). Additionally, I am a wife, mother, and am employed. With the extra classes in the BSN program, I couldn't swing it in a reasonable amount of time. We need me working full time ASAP. I have most of my pre-reqs done, so time wise, the BSN would only be an extra year or two, but I'd rather be making an RN salary and going for my BSN if and when I want or need to. Additionally, the hospital I will be working at will pay for my BSN after I start working there. Right now, they're paying for my ADN program. They don't have non-RN BSN scholarships.

    Advice: next time you want people to be gentle, don't ask them if they think they'll be "as competent..." Sounds kinda nasty and self-righteous.
  6. by   rn undisclosed name
    For me. The simple answer is $$$$. It costs me approximately $1,200/year for tuition plus books. In addition, my daughter is almost 3 and I need to pay for daycare ($175/week). If I went to the private BSN school in my area I would be shelling out $15,000/year for tuition plus books plus daycare. It is not worth it.

    Besides the cc has a higher pass rate than the private school. I'd much rather invest the time in going to the ADN program and practically be guaranteed I would pass than go to the private school and not be able to pass. Answer seems pretty clear to me.

    Now if I was much younger and didn't have a family to take care of I would definitely do the BSN. I still plan to pursue my BSN and MSN but I will let my employer foot the bill.
  7. by   Altra
    Quote from suzy253
    Plus the NCLEX pass rate in my school is 100%. hmmmmm.....I guess they are preparing very very competent nurses...RN's that is! Wouldn't trade it for anything.

    Thanks Suzy ... you took the words right out of my mouth.

    Just wanted to clarify - someone mentioned diploma programs being "3 years of clinicals and nothing else." Not so ... my 2-year diploma program includes the courses that are pre-reqs for most of you in ADN programs (A&P, micro, etc.)

    It would be interesting to compare the # of clinical hours, however ... anyone got their program's catalog handy? My program's clinicals total 990 hours. Just curious how that compares.
  8. by   RedSox33RN
    Quote from HU_nurse
    I'm sure that I am going to get ripped for this one but I am just curious. Whats the point of doing an ADN program? I mean, are you really going to be as competent as a BSN nurse? Considering the fact that I am in a BSN program and I can barely keep up with all of the tons of info that they throw at us, I wonder how you can possible obtain all that info in a ADN program. And further more from what I understand, with all the pre-reqs that you have to take, it ends up taking the average ADN student 3 years to finish anyway. So why not just do a 4 year program???

    BE gentle...
    Why would an ADN program take 3 years to finish, but a BSN 4? If people are going part-time, and the ADN takes 3 years part-time, a BSN could take 5 or 6 years part-time. If you are comparing time, you have to compare apples to apples. So it would not just be an extra year, it could be DOUBLE the time, whereas someone could be working with a degree for several years before then, and if they wished, working part-time on going from an AD to BS degree.

    Plus, I'm 36. I want to start working as a nurse as soon as I can. I plan to get my BSN, but with the number of employers offering tuition reimbursement, I plan on taking advantage of that. I'll get my ADN, and let them pick up the tab, or some of it, for my BSN.
  9. by   HU_nurse
    Quote from Cherish
    Have you ever compared more or less the syllabus, or what the two are learning? What I mean is that BSN, is more theory orientated, then clinical orientated, ADN usually has more clinical rotation and more hours than BSN. Also, BSN sometimes takes leadership or management classes, some BSN's just incorporate the liberal degree more into there program without additional classes. Sometimes some BSN, just incorporate the prereq. into the degree (there are some BSN schools where you can apply straight from highschool, WITHOUT doing any prereq's) so how is the employer supposed to assume that you were taught more than the ADN, or diploma RN? There are different BSN programs, and the way the format is differs from state to state college to college, some private some public. ADN usually have a more relational format vs. BSN programs, as is diploma. I am not in a diploma program, but if I was to be HR Manager (I think schools to me need way more clinicals), then diploma RN should get paid more, since its 3 yrs of clinicals, nothing else.
    No point in doing all that clinical when you barely know the thoery behind it...
  10. by   HU_nurse
    Quote from suemom2kay
    I'll be much more gentle than you were.

    Yes, I'm sure I'll be as competent as a BSN educated nurse. We take the same boards and do as many if not more clinical hours.

    The BSN programs in my area on average cost $12,000/yr. The ADN program is $100/credit (about $1600/yr). Additionally, I am a wife, mother, and am employed. With the extra classes in the BSN program, I couldn't swing it in a reasonable amount of time. We need me working full time ASAP. I have most of my pre-reqs done, so time wise, the BSN would only be an extra year or two, but I'd rather be making an RN salary and going for my BSN if and when I want or need to. Additionally, the hospital I will be working at will pay for my BSN after I start working there. Right now, they're paying for my ADN program. They don't have non-RN BSN scholarships.

    Advice: next time you want people to be gentle, don't ask them if they think they'll be "as competent..." Sounds kinda nasty and self-righteous.
    lol...ill try to keep that in mind...
  11. by   HU_nurse
    And furthermore, I must say that my theory has proven correct: nurses are very defensive group of people. But despite what you all may think, I posted this thread to gain insight and not to criticize someone for the decision that they have made. After reading all of the post, it make A LOT of sense to do an AND program: its cheaper, closer (sometimes) you get paid just as much, you are just as competent etc. I still dont agree with the fact that a BSN's pay scale is the same as a ADN"s pay, but hey I'll get over that. Thanks to all those who responded in a polite manner. As for myself, I'm glad that I chose the route that I did. I PERSONALLY (REMEMBER FOLKS, THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION) feel that the ADN program is just a cop out (except for the folks who are doing it b/c of money or family or work issues etc). But once again, like I said, this is just my personal opinion. It just doesnt seem logical that you can take two people: one of which went to school TWICE as long as the other one and yet they are to perform the same job, pass the same exam and get paid the same!!!! Where is the logic in that??? JUST MY OPINION
  12. by   TLC RN
    Quote from HU_nurse
    No point in doing all that clinical when you barely know the thoery behind it...

    If BSN's get the most theory then how come everyone says the best nurses are diploma nurses?

    Honestly, your statement is flawed becuase anyone that has been to college to learn theory in any degree program always learns that when they get in the real world none of the theory they learned is applied in the way they were taught to apply it. There is theory and real life experiences...we come out of college and learn what the reality of how things really work.

    Did you watch the apprentice? Why do you think Bill won over Kwame? Kwame had a degree and a bunch of theory behind his name...no real practical experience...

    The real learning with any job comes when you start it. All the programs (BSN, ADN, Diploma) get you to the same end...RN so that you can practice as a nurse. Same job, same pay...but with the BSN you can advance your career or go to grad school without more schooling...If you wanted to be paid more out of you 4 year program you should have picked accounting
  13. by   AnnaN5
    Quote from HU_nurse
    No point in doing all that clinical when you barely know the thoery behind it...
    I think you have been misinformed about ADN programs and maybe need to do a bit more research. ADN programs take on average 3 years because they make you take the anatomy, micro, etc before you start taking your nursing classes so you have 1 year of pre-reqs then 2 years of pretty much nothing but nursing classes. And in every BSN program I have looked into you have roughly 2 years of pre-req type classes, addition english, psych, etc classes then the last 2 years are nursing classes. So pretty much you are learning the exact same thing has the ADN programs except there are a couple extra nursing management/theory classes mixed in. If ADN nurses aren't competent and learning way less than you, how come ADN graduates can pass the same exact NCLEX test BSN grads take? Seems to me they obviously learned the same material you did....

    I just finished my BS in Human Biology and have done a ton of research on second-degree BSN programs and normal ADN programs and am much more interested in going to a normal ADN program than an accelerated program because of cost and I want more clinical time. If we are going by your logic of you are going to school longer so you should be paid more than ADN grads, well if I get a ADN nursing degree - shouldn't I be paid more than you since I will have gone to school for 6 years total for my BS and the ADN? I'm not trying to sound *****y but your logic is skewed.

    I think that you may have a rude awakening one day when you may have to take orders from an 'incompetent' ADN nurse....

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