Why many new grads don't find jobs....

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Hmm...

"I finished CNA clinicals".

I didn't even know there was such a thing as a CNA clinical.

Doesn't help your argument much, when you're not even aware of that. For the record - when taking a CNA course in California, students must receive a minimum of 100 hours of clinical instruction as per California Code of Regulations, Title 22, Division 5, Chapter 2.5, Article 3, 71835, Subpart (g).

"There is absolutely no reason for hiring managers to choose new grads who never worked in healthcare over those who have."

This is a rather radical statement. Imagine a nursing grad with a BSN from a reputable university with a 3.8 GPA, extensive clinical rotations and superb faculty recommendations and another nursing grad from an obscure community college with a 2.2. GPA who failed several semesters and is on her 3rd attempt at the NCLEX but has 3 years of hospital experience as a tech. Who would you hire if you were the nursing manager?

As a former hiring manager - it depends. Every manager I've spoken with over the past 25 years or so (including me) has had their own set of horror stories about the scholastic "wunderkind" who was hired and summarily had to be terminated because they simply had no clue as to HOW TO APPLY their hard-won "book knowledge" to real-world situations. If I had some sort of verifiable reference from someone that I knew personally that could vouch for the 3.8 GPA candidate, I'd consider them - but, frankly, I'd be inclined to lean toward the person with the 3 years of floor experience in a hospital setting as a tech. Why? Because (a) the 3 years on the floor indicates that they're likely to stick with an offered position, (b) odds are good that I probably know someone at the hospital they're coming from that can give me an "off the record" assessment of the person's abilities, and © I can verify employment independently via Social Security, background check agencies, etc. All I've got for a "new grad" is that (a) they've done a good job scholastically, (b) faculty members will vouch for them (incidentally, if you think faculty members don't tell the odd "whopper" about their grads - guess again!), and © they've got supervised floor time. No real proof that they can handle the stresses & strains of actual employment.

While one learns valuable skills as a tech, many of which such as prioritization and communication are transferable to the RN position, the role of tech and RN are fundamentally different. Most of the knowledge, skill set and critical thinking required of the RN are not learned working as a tech but in the classroom, during clinical experiences and later during orientation on your first RN job.

While true that the role of an RN has to be something of a "superset" of the CNA role, there's an entire class of knowledge that you're ignoring, which is sometimes referred to as "tribal knowledge". This is the knowledge acquired by working in the field that isn't (and, moreover, in most cases CAN'T) be taught in school. A simple example - in CNA class, they'll teach you how to do single-person & two-person patient transfers using a gait belt. By working with experienced CNA's, you'll learn techniques for doing the very same patient transfers that are (a) just as safe for both you and the patient and (b) don't require the use of a gait belt. Likewise, as an experienced RN you'll have your own set of "tribal knowledge" that never saw the inside of a classroom, and you'll never hear about - until you get out in the "real world" and experience it first-hand.

While I agree that having a job in healthcare while in nursing school can be a great in for a job, I don't think this statement is true. There are absolutely reasons for a hiring manager to choose a new grad without experience over one who has experience in health care.

Other than possibly cost, I'd love to hear your rationale for this one.

The reason that experienced people (or, "connected" people) are hired over others tends to boil down to one main reason - risk. There's less risk in hiring Uncle Bob's second cousin on Aunt Elsie Mae's side than a total stranger - even when someone comes along with excellent credentials. And, I've been passed over several times for positions for that very reason alone. Likewise, someone with a proven, verifiable track record in a given field will be a better risk than someone just starting out.

Does that mean there's no hope for a new grad? Nope - sometimes you can get the gravy jobs even with everything stacked against you, depending on circumstances. That said - don't be too quick to turn your nose up at less "desirable" opportunities - typically, what you'll tend to find is that the less "risk-averse" organizations tend to pay less, or are more toxic workplaces. However, they will give a new grad a chance to prove themselves - which, when you're starting out is really what you need more than anything else.

----- Dave

MillerRN

5 Posts

I worked as a CNA in a hospital for 3 years, graduated with a BSN and still couldn't get a job in a hospital. I had to take a job in a prison to get some damn "RN" experience. They don't seem to care if you have other experience...

sauconyrunner

553 Posts

Specializes in Emergency.

Indeed there are CNA clinicals. I did them in a Nursing home, and learned so much about being a nurse.

We just hired 14 new grads this year. (I know the number exactly because I will be orienting them on June 1.) We are actually super excited about these Nurses and hope they will want to stay with us for a long time. It may not seem like a lot, but we are a 122 bed hospital...

Some of them have experience at our hospital- we like this because we have an idea of how people will work in the culture and also if they are able to get to work on time etc. Some don't have any experience, but seemed like a good fit. We put the no exp people with very very strong committed preceptors and cross our fingers a bit...

If you are going to take a job at a hospital with an eye on getting a position there, you really have to keep your eye on the prize 100% of the time. No "No show no call" days, No being late. No patient complaints, No staff complaints, and you should never make negative statements. It can go for you or against you.

Specializes in Critical Care.

It really makes a difference who you know does matter more than what you know! Sad to say but that is the reality in life no matter what business or job you seek! This puts the shy introverted person at a great disadvantage and the outgoing popular attractive person at a great advantage in school, work and life! I think its true that the attractive "photogenic" outgoing person can get by on their looks and personality and don't have to study or work as hard as the rest of the pack!

cindyk123

12 Posts

Specializes in NICU.

You can often obtain a certificate from your nursing school after your first semester of nursing classes with clinicals and then take the state exam and skills to get yur CNA certificate. This is how NY state does it. ANd yes there is a clinial component to the CNA course. NY mandates a certain number of hours.

country mom

379 Posts

You know what made me sad about this thread? How the lady in the post lamented about the "poor" folks at the nursing home with no socks, and how that is what made her NOT want to work in a nursing home, and go somewhere else that was less sad, easier work, more money, etc.,etc. What saddens me is that she didn't want to go into the trenches and be the person who made a difference. The people who are truly happy, truly effective in nursing are the ones who go in each day, determined to make a difference.

buckeyepaige

18 Posts

I have the same issue. I would love to work as a CNA/PCA, but it would mean cutting my current pay almost in half. Since my living expenses are not being subsidized by my parents/huband etc, I simply cannot afford to live on that paycheck. I have been trying to find volunteer opportunities in the local hospitals, but even those are difficult to obtain if you don't know someone.

watersamy

146 Posts

It took me over a year to land a CNA job at a rehab hospital while I was in nursing school. The tough part was being able to do 2-3 weeks of orientation full time during a day shift, which is impossible while in school. Thankfully the minute I passed the NCLEX, they were able to promote me to an RN position. The experience I received as a CNA was fantastic and gave me a better understanding of what I was learning in school as well as propelling me into a nursing career.

allnurses Guide

Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN

11,304 Posts

You know what made me sad about this thread? How the lady in the post lamented about the "poor" folks at the nursing home with no socks, and how that is what made her NOT want to work in a nursing home, and go somewhere else that was less sad, easier work, more money, etc.,etc. What saddens me is that she didn't want to go into the trenches and be the person who made a difference. The people who are truly happy, truly effective in nursing are the ones who go in each day, determined to make a difference.

Your post moved me :redbeathe My mom had to be moved from our local Alzheimer's Unit to one 6 hours away due to times of anxiety and aggressive behavior. The Unit had to hire traveling CNA's (who make more than RN's) to do one-on-one care for her. They were awesome. But too expensive so she had to move.

The new place is for patients who have a higher level of care needed - there are 3 patients for each CNA and the CNA's run all day long. The sad thing is, you can't keep an eye on 3 high aquity patient's all the time and my mom fell and broke her hip a couple of weeks ago. I made sure to thank each CNA the day I visited as they do a difficult and awesome job. I sat in the cafeteria and watched them interact with the patients and was impressed. Working in geriatrics is honorable work but very hard. Especially with dementia patients. :bow:

rs02011988

22 Posts

I just wanted to input my two cents here. I did not want to be a CNA, personally. I didn't think it could fit into my life while I was in nursing school. I know that they would be flexible with hours, but I also know me and I knew I would pick up extra shifts and work more than I should. I also just wanted to take a different path than EVERYBODY else. I felt as though EVERYONE was a CNA and I wanted to stand out. I worked at a Girl Scout Camp for a summer as a health supervisor. I worked under the supervision of an RN who came to visit the site occasionally. I would dispense meds throughout the day, take care of first aid and oversee the general health and well-being of the girls. After that summer, I worked at a rehab facility for people who had TBIs. I dispensed meds, was included in their overall plan of care and learned a lot.

Right after I passed my NCLEX, I got a great job as a public health nurse and I think that my experience really helped. I think it can be very rewarding to take the road less traveled :)

leenak

980 Posts

I have the same issue. I would love to work as a CNA/PCA, but it would mean cutting my current pay almost in half. Since my living expenses are not being subsidized by my parents/huband etc, I simply cannot afford to live on that paycheck. I have been trying to find volunteer opportunities in the local hospitals, but even those are difficult to obtain if you don't know someone.

I think CNAs make about 1/4th of what I make now and I'm using my current paycheck to save up for nursing school. I've been eyeing the CNA course at the local community college just to get the experience (it isn't required for the nursing schools) but the schedule always conflicts with my pre-req classes. I work 40-50 hours/week and go to school. I was thinking I could go part time at my job and work part time as a CNA to reduce the hit in pay but we'll see if that can happen eventually.

I am hoping my experience at my current job will help me a little. I've been in the same job for 14 years now and have a variety of IT experience. No practical healthcare assistance though. Once I'm in nursing school, I do hope to see if I can get a part time job though.

allnurses Guide

Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN

11,304 Posts

I have the same issue. I would love to work as a CNA/PCA, but it would mean cutting my current pay almost in half. Since my living expenses are not being subsidized by my parents/huband etc, I simply cannot afford to live on that paycheck. I have been trying to find volunteer opportunities in the local hospitals, but even those are difficult to obtain if you don't know someone.

I really think you should cut yourself some slack about working as a CNA/PCA. While I think there is nothing wrong with it - it also isn't necessary to be a good nurse.

Maybe all nursing schools don't work the same way - but when I went to school we learned basic patient care info first - how to make beds, how to transfer patients (we used gait belts), giving bed baths, doing vital signs, etc.

I came at this second career in my late 30's with no medical experience at all. Most of the RN's I work with had no CNA experience either. And they are fine nurses.

I guess I just want to make sure that folks realize that unless your school requires a CNA Certificate prior to nursing school, it's ok not to be a CNA first.

It's also ok to do it if you want.

But being a CNA first is no guarantee that you'll be a good nurse. That has more to do with what kind of person you are, how you view teamwork, what your goals are. It also doesn't guarantee you will get a job.

edited to add . . .if this adds another layer of stress to your family life, I'd definitely opt out . . which is what my mentor warned me about. Going back to school when you have a family (and a job) is tough. I focused on becoming an RN.

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