Hmm...
Quote from RCBR
"I finished CNA clinicals".
I didn't even know there was such a thing as a CNA clinical.
Doesn't help your argument much, when you're not even aware of that. For the record - when taking a CNA course in California, students must receive a minimum of 100 hours of clinical instruction as per California Code of Regulations, Title 22, Division 5, Chapter 2.5, Article 3, § 71835, Subpart (g).
Quote from RCBR
"There is absolutely no reason for hiring managers to choose new grads who never worked in healthcare over those who have."
This is a rather radical statement. Imagine a nursing grad with a BSN from a reputable university with a 3.8 GPA, extensive clinical rotations and superb faculty recommendations and another nursing grad from an obscure community college with a 2.2. GPA who failed several semesters and is on her 3rd attempt at the NCLEX but has 3 years of hospital experience as a tech. Who would you hire if you were the nursing manager?
As a former hiring manager - it depends. Every manager I've spoken with over the past 25 years or so (including me) has had their own set of horror stories about the scholastic "wunderkind" who was hired and summarily had to be terminated because they simply had no clue as to HOW TO APPLY their hard-won "book knowledge" to real-world situations. If I had some sort of verifiable reference from someone that I knew personally that could vouch for the 3.8 GPA candidate, I'd consider them - but, frankly, I'd be inclined to lean toward the person with the 3 years of floor experience in a hospital setting as a tech. Why? Because (a) the 3 years on the floor indicates that they're likely to stick with an offered position, (b) odds are good that I probably know someone at the hospital they're coming from that can give me an "off the record" assessment of the person's abilities, and (c) I can verify employment independently via Social Security, background check agencies, etc. All I've got for a "new grad" is that (a) they've done a good job scholastically, (b) faculty members will vouch for them (incidentally, if you think faculty members don't tell the odd "whopper" about their grads - guess again!), and (c) they've got supervised floor time. No real proof that they can handle the stresses & strains of actual employment.
Quote from RCBR
While one learns valuable skills as a tech, many of which such as prioritization and communication are transferable to the RN position, the role of tech and RN are fundamentally different. Most of the knowledge, skill set and critical thinking required of the RN are not learned working as a tech but in the classroom, during clinical experiences and later during orientation on your first RN job.
While true that the role of an RN has to be something of a "superset" of the CNA role, there's an entire class of knowledge that you're ignoring, which is sometimes referred to as "tribal knowledge". This is the knowledge acquired by working in the field that isn't (and, moreover, in most cases CAN'T) be taught in school. A simple example - in CNA class, they'll teach you how to do single-person & two-person patient transfers using a gait belt. By working with experienced CNA's, you'll learn techniques for doing the very same patient transfers that are (a) just as safe for both you and the patient and (b) don't require the use of a gait belt. Likewise, as an experienced RN you'll have your own set of "tribal knowledge" that never saw the inside of a classroom, and you'll never hear about - until you get out in the "real world" and experience it first-hand.
Quote from windowrn
While I agree that having a job in healthcare while in nursing school can be a great in for a job, I don't think this statement is true. There are absolutely reasons for a hiring manager to choose a new grad without experience over one who has experience in health care.
Other than possibly cost, I'd love to hear your rationale for this one.
The reason that experienced people (or, "connected" people) are hired over others tends to boil down to one main reason - risk. There's less risk in hiring Uncle Bob's second cousin on Aunt Elsie Mae's side than a total stranger - even when someone comes along with excellent credentials. And, I've been passed over several times for positions for that very reason alone. Likewise, someone with a proven, verifiable track record in a given field will be a better risk than someone just starting out.
Does that mean there's no hope for a new grad? Nope - sometimes you can get the gravy jobs even with everything stacked against you, depending on circumstances. That said - don't be too quick to turn your nose up at less "desirable" opportunities - typically, what you'll tend to find is that the less "risk-averse" organizations tend to pay less, or are more toxic workplaces. However, they will give a new grad a chance to prove themselves - which, when you're starting out is really what you need more than anything else.
----- Dave
May 21, '12 by RLtinkerI just finished up my first semester of NS, which means I qualify to take the CNA written exam. I have been debating the idea of get my CNA and working as one in school just for the experience. However, it is hard to take a possible pay cut and loose my medical insurance. I still don't know what I am going to do.
May 21, '12 by chels14Quote from Wild Irish SNThank you! Congratulations on graduating, Valedictorian is a huge honor, especially in nursing! :P Good luck to you in your nursing career!well be excited!....I like to bi*ch and moan about the clinical schedule, but in reality I love it....you just never know what you are going to get or see when the doors swing open....and that is what attracted me to nursing in the first place....best of luck to you!!Wild Irish LPN likes this.
May 21, '12 by MamaSquaredI took a job as a nursing assistant while in nursing school and while I was eligible for a nurse extern position. The NA position was at the hospital, in the unit, I wanted to work at after I graduated. So, I agree. It's good to get your foot in the door! Plus, (my hospital, at least) the hospitals are REALLY REALLY good about working with you regarding your schedule while you're in school. They WANT you to stay there & work as an RN after you graduate!!PatMac10,SN and gummi bear like this.
May 22, '12 by PMFB-RNThis whole discussion makes me sad. it makes me sad cause it's proof that the false and self serving "nursing shortage" propaganda has worked. For most of my nursing career hospitals had to be NICE to nurses and nursing students. If they weren't nice they would quickly find themselves severly short staffed. The idea that a new norse could be discriminated aginst for something as silly as wether or not they were a CNA first didn't exsist. Obviously this being nice to nurses and students wasn't the very best thing for bottom lines so something had to be done, hence the false "nursing shortage" propaganda. The idea being that by creating a fantasy of a severe shortage of nurses we can recruit many people into nursing who otherwise wouldn't have considered it until we have a glut of nurses. Then there is no reason to be be nice to them, no reason to create safe working conditions, no reason to increase pay.
May 22, '12 by MN-NurseQuote from RCBRThere are CNA clinicals in MN."I finished CNA clinicals".
May 22, '12 by StephalumpQuote from MN-NurseI HAVE A CHANCE!
May 22, '12 by caliotter3I remember plenty of days of job hunting for a CNA job when I couldn't get hired. The job market hasn't been that peachy keen for me at any time. If I had only known then, what I know now, I would have made different choices and things would be different for me now.koi310 likes this.
May 22, '12 by IEDaveHmm...