Why aren't there more nursing programs in your State !!!! - page 5

Everyone knows that there is a nursing shortage. However, there are not enough programs designed or catered to the people who really wants to go to school for nursing. To me there should be more... Read More

  1. by   Freedom42
    Quote from sunnyjohn
    VERY INTERESTING!!!

    So nurses need to be seen by hospitals as assets and not liabilites to capital.... Hmmm.... Sounds like we need and image overhaul.

    Making the case that skilled patient advocates (nurses) increase profit margins and are better for the bottom line (than say,fancy lobby fountains that sing) should not be too hard. Turn your largest employment group into a windfall.

    Competitive pay + plesant working environments + increased peer (nursing) input = Good NURSES =Increased profits $$$$
    I wouldn't argue that good nurses mean increased profits (though I'm sure they do). But I would contend that the health care industry has a stake in ensuring a well-educated work force, and if it wants to make sure that there are enough nurses to staff facilities, it needs to invest in educational programs -- just as other business sectors do.

    One other thought (and thank you for a provocative conversation on this dreary New Year's Day!): I was intrigued to read that instructors' salaries at Penn's school of nursing are paid by both Penn and the hospitals at which these instructors teach clinicals. The school says it's had virtually no faculty turnover as a result. Isn't that a win-win for everyone? Anyone know of other schools that are using this model?
  2. by   SA2BDOCTOR
    Quote from sunnyjohn
    Naw, I learned it in a "Women in Sociology" class in undergrad. The professor was a older woman who started out her professional career an RN.

    She would proudly show students photos of her in her cap and regal you with stories of her days as a young RN. Her classes were always packed with students of all majors, especially pre-nursing. She was working hard to debunk the myth of women's work and always encouraged the future nurses to take pride in their profession.

    I think she considered herself a new feminist with the idea that nursing and teaching and stay at home motherhood impowered women.
    I shall also carry the torch "Pink Collar". I am sure I would have enjoyed her class also.
  3. by   SA2BDOCTOR
    Quote from Freedom42
    I wouldn't argue that good nurses mean increased profits (though I'm sure they do). But I would contend that the health care industry has a stake in ensuring a well-educated work force, and if it wants to make sure that there are enough nurses to staff facilities, it needs to invest in educational programs -- just as other business sectors do.

    One other thought (and thank you for a provocative conversation on this dreary New Year's Day!): I was intrigued to read that instructors' salaries at Penn's school of nursing are paid by both Penn and the hospitals at which these instructors teach clinicals. The school says it's had virtually no faculty turnover as a result. Isn't that a win-win for everyone? Anyone know of other schools that are using this model?
    I totally agree.
  4. by   Freedom42
    I was intrigued to see the mention of the wage gap and the oft-quoted statistic that women earn 70 cents for every $1 dollar earned by a man. Though this isn't the topic of our thread, I immediately thought of an article that I read in The New York Times on Dec. 24. Please swallow your coffee before you read these next paragraphs:

    "Throughout the 1980s and early '90s, women of all economic levels -- poor, middle class and rich -- were steadily gaining ground on their male counterparts in the work force. By the mid-'90s, women earned more than 75 cents for every dollar in hourly pay that men did, up from 65 cents just 15 years earlier.

    "Largely without notice, however, one big group of women has stopped making progress: those with a four-year college degree. The gap between their pay and the pay of male college graduates has actually widened slightly since the mid-'90s."

    Um, what?! I was shocked to read that while women without college degrees continue to gain on men, last year, women with degrees who are between 36 and 45 years old earned 74.7 cents for every dollar earned by men in the same group. That's down from 75.7 cents 10 years earlier.

    The Times reported that the reasons for the stagnation are complicated "and appear to include both discrimination and women's own choices." The government says more highly educated women are choosing to stay home.

    And that means that the rest of us with degrees are penalized? Sigh.
  5. by   Sheri257
    Hospitals are paying for my program to take extra students. But, there's a catch. You have to sign five year slave labor contracts ... and I mean, these contracts are bad.

    If you quit, you have to pay them back $167 a week for that five years. That's nearly $9K a year or $45K over five years with interest.

    That's not the only problem: their pay is $3 to $4 an hour lower than everywhere else, their health insurance is very expensive but not very good ... if you go out of state for vacation you basically have no health insurance if something happens.

    And did I mention that the patient care is poor and it basically sucks to work there? I know because I used to work there.

    Chances are: the students are going to want to quit like I did but, they'll will be trapped with this horrible contract.

    So ... watch out. There is a price for these deals ... and it's not cheap.


    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Jan 2, '07
  6. by   llg
    Quote from lizz
    Hospitals are paying for my program to take extra students. But, there's a catch. You have to sign five year slave labor contracts ... and I mean, these contracts are bad.
    ......
    So ... watch out. There is a price for these deals ... and it's not cheap.

    :typing
    Thanks for reminding people of that. As I survey the situation, I see a lot of people signing contracts that they regret later. The old adages are still true:

    "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

    "You don't get something for nothing."

    and

    "There is no such thing as a free lunch." The same goes for education.
  7. by   SA2BDOCTOR
    Quote from llg
    Thanks for reminding people of that. As I survey the situation, I see a lot of people signing contracts that they regret later. The old adages are still true:

    "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

    "You don't get something for nothing."

    and

    "There is no such thing as a free lunch." The same goes for education.

    Man, that is so true. I am thinking of singing up with a hospital for my AO program and now I second guessing doing it that....
  8. by   SA2BDOCTOR
    Quote from lizz
    Hospitals are paying for my program to take extra students. But, there's a catch. You have to sign five year slave labor contracts ... and I mean, these contracts are bad.

    If you quit, you have to pay them back $167 a week for that five years. That's nearly $9K a year or $45K over five years with interest.

    That's not the only problem: their pay is $3 to $4 an hour lower than everywhere else, their health insurance is very expensive but not very good ... if you go out of state for vacation you basically have no health insurance if something happens.

    And did I mention that the patient care is poor and it basically sucks to work there? I know because I used to work there.

    Chances are: the students are going to want to quit like I did but, they'll will be trapped with this horrible contract.

    So ... watch out. There is a price for these deals ... and it's not cheap.


    :typing
    I thought you only had to work back for 2 years tops. WAW...did you read the fine prints before you signed up? This sound like a City hospital tho, is it? Does the private hospital not have better contract and benefits?
  9. by   Sheri257
    Quote from SA2BDOCTOR
    I thought you only had to work back for 2 years tops. WAW...did you read the fine prints before you signed up? This sound like a City hospital tho, is it? Does the private hospital not have better contract and benefits?
    I didn't sign up ... other people did. You're confusing different hospital tuition assistance programs. Let me explain: typically most hospitals give you money ... something like $5K to $10K to help you get through school. In return, you sign up to work for them for one or two years. It's usually a private deal where they give the student the money and that's it.

    However, they still couldn't hire enough nurses. And the school didn't have any more state money to increase enrollments, even with the two year waiting list. So, this time, they did a completely different program.

    The hospitals agreed to pay the full bill directly to the school for educating the students, without state subsidies. But that meant they'd have to pay a lot more than $5K to $10K. The cost of educating each student, without help from the state ... is anywhere from $30 to $35K.

    In exchange for paying the full costs, the hospitals got these students off the two year waiting list. However, in order to recover those high costs, they made the students sign 5 year contracts to work there.

    So if you don't like the hospital and decide to quit ... you still have to pay back the remaining balance of that $30K to $35K, with interest, over five years ... which ends up being $45K by the time you've paid it all off.

    Basically the way it works is: every week you work, $167 comes off the balance. But if you quit, then you have to pay that $167 every week until the balance is paid ... unless you can come up with enough cash to pay the principal, which most students can't do right out of school.

    P.S. Private hospitals, especially private for-profit hospitals, actually have some of the worst pay and benefits ... at least in my area.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Jan 2, '07
  10. by   SA2BDOCTOR
    Thanks for clarifying. I will still be careful with contracts period.:spin:
  11. by   sunnyjohn
    bumping.. 'cause I thought this was an interesting topic and would like more input.
  12. by   manofcare
    The issue of alumni organizations is an intriguing idea. Here's some of the reasons law schools are so successful at building large war chests from alumni contributions. The graduates are very loyal and proud of their school, and are inclined to contribute to the school to futher alumni organizations. The graduates are well paid. Lawyers have the potential of making serious money;thereby, having money to contribute.

    Here is the issue with nursing that I have seen so far. It seems to me that there is an almost confrontational relationship between a large number of the students and the faculty. My opinion only. I try to stay under the radar on these conflicts. If the faculty is despised by the graduates, you can bet they are not going to contribute to an alumni organization. It also seems that there is a lot of discussion about how to pay for an education in these postings. Loans, grants, contracts, etc. If you graduate with a large amount of debt, you are probably not in the position to contribute to an alumni organization. Do not get me wrong, I'm just pointing this out. As a society, we never think living within our means is a responsible way to manage our money. Once again, the Lexus payment, credit cards, student loans, too big of house= no money to contribute to an alumni organization.
    The way to change all of this is to change the way nurses think of faculty and the way they manage their money. I had a clinical instructor laugh at me when I suggested that the school turn to the alumni for help with the purchase of lab equipment.
  13. by   Freedom42
    Quote from manofcare
    The issue of alumni organizations is an intriguing idea. Here's some of the reasons law schools are so successful at building large war chests from alumni contributions. The graduates are very loyal and proud of their school, and are inclined to contribute to the school to futher alumni organizations. The graduates are well paid. Lawyers have the potential of making serious money;thereby, having money to contribute.

    Here is the issue with nursing that I have seen so far. It seems to me that there is an almost confrontational relationship between a large number of the students and the faculty. My opinion only.
    Manofcare, I agree: There does seem to be a lot of friction between students and faculty, depending on the institution, at least as expressed on this board. That's not the case at my school. One of the reasons that we're talking about becoming active in the political arena as student nurses is because we've been so inspired by a couple of instructors whose only agenda is improving conditions at school and at work. They're fantastic (and grossly underpaid).

    You're right: Law school generate loyal alumni. But I disagree that alums of other professional schools lack the means to make contributions. My husband attended a public law school. When I perused the school's annual philanthropy report last week, I saw that most contributions are $100 or less. I'm not sure whether they're tax-deductible. My point is that people who've had a positive experience find ways to give back in any way that they can. (Members of that law school alumni association also return to campus once a year to do practice job interviews with students about to graduate. What a great -- and no cost! -- idea.) I've also started a small list of philanthropic organizations in my state that we could hit up. I used to do a fair amount of charity fund-raising, and I think we could generate a fair amount of interest in supporting nursing programs because every community in the state stands to benefit.

    Is anyone interested in starting a student nurse activism thread? (Or is there one already that I've missed?) I'd love to keep this discussion going and find out what's happening on other campuses.

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