When the class average is FAILING!!! - page 2

I got a 66% on my last test.............but the class average is 65%!!! The teacher is not going to grade on a curve or anything either. I think that when the average grade of the class is an "F"... Read More

  1. by   Sheri257
    Quote from BSNtobe2009
    Competent teachers is by far, my single most hot-button topic :angryfire . They are getting paid pretty good salaries considering most college-level professors don't even work 40 hours a week.
    Actually ... they're not, at least in my program. This is part of the problem. They're only paid for the number of hours they're actually lecturing ... that's it. Everything else ... office hours, writing tests, faculty meetings, lecture preparation etc. they don't get paid for.

    In my area, the instructors can make the same hourly wage at local hospitals as what they get for lecture time. So, a lot of my instructors also work the floors ... which is both good and bad.

    It's good because they're still in the hospitals but, it's also bad because some of them tend to skimp on lecture, test preparation etc. because they don't get paid for it. They spend more time putting hours in at the hospitals because those are the hours they actually get paid for.

    The major problem for the students is .... they don't spend a lot of time writing test questions either. They tend to rely on ready made test banks that can vary greatly from what's in the books and what they emphasize in class.

    This is often why you'll hear students say ... where the hell did those questions come from ... after a test. The instructors, in many cases, pull these questions arbitrarily from other sources because, it's easier for them and, because they have no financial incentive to take the time to make sure it matches with the study material.

    The school isn't going to do much about it because, they can't find faculty with the low pay and, a lot of teachers have tenure anyway.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Nov 30, '06
  2. by   BoonersmomRN
    I have seen this happen with my class. Test 1 in M/S 1 we had 6 people PASS out of 35+. I passed.

    If it is EVERY test I'd agree it's the instructor...but it's been my experience so far that it's *usually* one random test that this happens on. The above class....the next 2 tests had almost everyone pass..and it wasn't easier- I think some people learned the ways of the instructor, SOME finally started study seriously, and others just found it tp be material that was more familiar.

    I can't say it's the instructors fault on one test. You are almost done this semester...how did the other tests go?
  3. by   BSNtobe2009
    Quote from llg
    Most college professors work far more than 40 hours per week. Just because they are not in their offices and/or at the students' beck and call does not mean that they are not working. Faculty members have work to do and responsibilities that you are obviously unaware of. You should refrain from such broad bashing of an honorable profession until you have "walked a mile in their shoes."

    Your comments about nursing faculty are the equivalent of someone bashing nursing by saying that "RN's don't work hard: they just hang around at the desk and flirt with doctors." "Nurses are lazy: just try to find one when you need one." "Nurse Practitioners are people who want to be doctors, but were either too stupid or too lazy to go to med school." All of those statements are uncalled for -- as are some of yours about faculty members.

    Of course, there are some faculty members who are not good at their jobs -- just as there are people in every profession who are not good at their jobs -- and just like there are students who are not investing enough time and effort into their schoolwork. That's no reason to abuse an entire profession.

    llg
    In your second paragraph, I never made any statement of the sort, so that isn't something I am even going to address. You also need to read where I specifically said the post was NOT DIRECTED AT FACULTY WHO DID THEIR JOBS.

    Yes, I am well-aware of their "other" activities, but their PRIMARY job is to teach and come to class prepared for lecture, just like it is the STUDENT'S job to come to class prepared for lecture. I was a student assistant for my last two years of college, so I am well aware of what their responsibilities are. An instructor has a job to read the material they are teaching so they know what the BOOK is teaching the students, since they obviously hold the STUDENTS accountable for everything that is in the book.

    Lizz mentioned that the teachers often rely too often on the test bank that comes with the book....INSTRUCTORS need to compare that with their PREPARED class lecture...there is no excuse for questions to come out of thin air and for an instructor to review a test after the fact and think, "Oh Gee, I guess the book emphasized that more than I thought." Well, Duh! Didn't they read it? They required the students to!

    College is expensive, and you should get what you pay for. I am not ranting on just one or two teachers I have had over the years. Every semester I run into at least 2 professors that definitely need to be shown the retirement door.

    One that had some silly rule about not being able to open your book in class, another that made you go buy a 50 cent blue book for every test because "he" didn't like "all those stacks of paper". Another that would take 10 points off a test if you didn't use black ink. Another that had all of his lectures typed and he READ straight out of the binder at the podium for every class so God forbid, if he actually had to PREPARE every semester. What is this? Kindergarden?

    Students are a CUSTOMER of the college. Colleges spend alot of money on recruitment...up to $3,000 per student or more. This type of silly immature nonsense is rampant among colleges, and if the biggest issue that a teacher has out of the day is what color ink a student uses then it's time to focus on another career.

    I have had Instructors that flip out on the first day if you don't have your textbook on the first day of class, but then when you ask for the syllabus, they say, "Oh, I haven't got around to finishing that yet." You take a test on a scantron, it's two weeks later, and "Oh, I haven't got around to grading those yet." (Don't they just go through a little machine...I used to be able to grade and record around 300 in a couple of hours). They start the lecture and you have a question about something in the book (which might be new for the semester) "Oh, I really haven't had the chance to go through that yet."

    My question is this: So, what are you doing all day? Especially considering professors usually have a full work week BEFORE the semester even starts.

    Can you use that as excuse to not have YOUR work done as a student? Nope. You have to be there every day, have every assignment in on time, the tests have to be taken when they are scheduled, and it doesn't matter how sick you are, who died, they want their assignments completed on time no matter what....ok...no problem...so why don't they hold themselves to the same standard in getting the assignments graded and back to students in a timely manner? I mean, after all, they are only getting paid to teach the person that pays their salary.

    After all, aren't they supposed to be setting an example?

    The educational system, according to CONGRESS is NOT COMPETITIVE among industrialized countries. The United States used to be known among the world as having the best educational system, and that isn't true anymore. Many have asked for a major overhaul of the system...and this doesn't have anything to do with pay....there are alot of lower paying jobs in the world, but you knew what the salary was when you took the job, and you can't use that as a crutch for not doing your job....and just like any other job if you don't do your job, they need to find someone that will.
    Last edit by BSNtobe2009 on Nov 30, '06
  4. by   Sheri257
    Quote from BSNtobe2009
    Lizz mentioned that the teachers often rely too often on the test bank that comes with the book....INSTRUCTORS need to compare that with their PREPARED class lecture...there is no excuse for questions to come out of thin air and for an instructor to review a test after the fact and think, "Oh Gee, I guess the book emphasized that more than I thought." Well, Duh! Didn't they read it? They required the students to!

    My question is this: So, what are you doing all day? Especially considering professors usually have a full work week BEFORE the semester even starts.

    Can you use that as excuse to not have YOUR work done as a student? Nope.
    There's no arguing with what you are saying but ... as a student who's about to graduate in two weeks, I can tell you that's it's probably not going to do any good to complain about it. I complained .... to the faculty and the director of nursing ... many times. It didn't change a thing.

    I finally accepted the reality of the situation and figured out how to deal with it. Besides studying the basic material, I went through every NCLEX guide I could get my hands on and did every NCLEX practice question I could find on the material that was being tested on.

    It was a major pain and a lot of work but, it exposed me to a lot of the material that either wasn't in the books or mentioned in lecture. It also helped me learn how to game the test for those questions where I didn't know the answer.

    For me, at least, this is how I dealt with this problem in nursing school. And I'm actually doing better this semester than I have in the previous ones. Because the unfortunate reality is ... they can do what they want, and there's not much you can do about it.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Nov 30, '06
  5. by   CrazyHands
    I agree with most points regarding exams. It seems that the instructors like to take the most obscure information from a chapter and formulate a question around it. Give me a break!! We have so much real pertinent info to know, what is the point to that?

    Also, most of our exams there will be at least 2 questions that can be disputed by taking the content directly from the text however, they have a different "correct answer". And no matter how you try to present your arguement, it always boils down to them being right and you are wrong. Not that one or two questions will make or break your grade, but it is the principle. If it states it one way in the text, then the question and answer needs to mimic that same information. We are students, not experienced professionals. We don't have years of knowledge to back up our learning and understanding. If we can't rely on the text for accurate information, then what can we count on?
    CrazyHands
  6. by   BSNtobe2009
    Quote from lizz
    There's no arguing with what you are saying but ... as a student who's about to graduate in two weeks, I can tell you that's it's probably not going to do any good to complain about it. I complained .... to the faculty and the director of nursing ... many times. It didn't change a thing.

    I finally accepted the reality of the situation and figured out how to deal with it. Besides studying the basic material, I went through every NCLEX guide I could get my hands on and did every NCLEX practice question I could find on the material that was being tested on.

    It was a major pain and a lot of work but, it exposed me to a lot of the material that either wasn't in the books or mentioned in lecture. It also helped me learn how to game the test for those questions where I didn't know the answer.

    For me, at least, this is how I dealt with this problem in nursing school. And I'm actually doing better this semester than I have in the previous ones. Because the unfortunate reality is ... they can do what they want, and there's not much you can do about it.

    :typing
    Oh gosh Lizz, I agree with you...I have only complained about 2 Professors the entire time I was in college, and one wasn't even academically related. One was requiring us to participate in a survey (where our names were used) that asked personal questions that I didn't feel comfortable answering (as a known individual), and took points off our final grade if we didn't partipate....the college said that was unethical and told the professor he couldn't do that.

    The second time was the professor I had that wouldn't allow us to bring a textbook to class and open it during lecture...it's none of his business how I learn...instead of the college addressing the professor on a silly ego-tripping preference, they refunded my money for the class and removed it from my record entirely....Now, I didn't need the class for my major, but what if I did?

    Everyone has their hot button, and this just happens to be mine. It is something I am very, very passionate about, as you can tell.

    At the same time, I FULLY SUPPORT Professor's rights to dismiss students that are acting up, constantly coming to class late, not coming to class prepared that may cause a disruption among the other students. We are adults, and we shouldn't have to be spoon-fed material.

    <sigh> I don't ask for miracles...just for college intructors to be the kind of instructor that THEY would want to have. Take the time to read the material, incorporate it into your lecture, be reasonably available and just treat your students with the same respect that they treat you.

    When I have a great professor...I let them know it!
  7. by   Sheri257
    Quote from BSNtobe2009
    <sigh> I don't ask for miracles...just for college intructors to be the kind of instructor that THEY would want to have. Take the time to read the material, incorporate it into your lecture, be reasonably available and just treat your students with the same respect that they treat you.
    Well ... as Scarlett O'Hara is told in Gone with the Wind:

    Askin' ain't gettin'.

    Because in some cases, it's going to take a miracle to get some of these instructors to do their jobs.

    Bottom line: do the NCLEX practice questions. IMHO, it's the best way to beat the instructors at their own game. It helped me A LOT.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Nov 30, '06
  8. by   BSNtobe2009
    Quote from lizz
    Well ... as Scarlett O'Hara is told in Gone with the Wind:

    Askin' ain't gettin'.

    Because in some cases, it's going to take a miracle to get some of these instructors to do their jobs.

    Bottom line: do the NCLEX practice questions. IMHO, it's the best way to beat the instructors at their own game. It helped me A LOT.

    :typing
    THANKS, I plan on it!
  9. by   NaomieRN
    Quote from CRNASOMEDAY25
    I don't agree with just because the whole class failed that it is automatically the instructor's fault.

    If even one person in the class did well on it, then there was no way it was all the instructor's fault.

    Think about it, there is no way someone guesses on all the answers and just happens to get enough right.
    The last test we had, the class average was failing and I did fine on it. I do admit that I messed up on some of the all that apply questions, and it was because I left out at least one correct choice. Other than that, I didn't find the entire test to be unfair, just more challenging.
    JMO.
    Come on now, if more than 50% of a class, it is the instructor. Remember not everyone should be a teacher. There are some instructors that have no business in the classroom. They just horrible!
    Last semester, 23 students failed Maternity because of a bad intructor. She was fired at the end of the semester. Some of the students who failed were getting good greats in other nursing classes.
  10. by   mysterious_one
    I agree with lizz, the state board does not care what text book you used during your nursing education, and your instructors pull questions from test banks that most closely resemble NCLEX type questions. So that's where the differences might come into play between your books and those questions. In a way I'd rather be prepared for the boards early, then graduate easily and then can't pass the NCLEX. As she said , I try to study not only my textbook, but every NCLEX book I can get my hands on.
    Last edit by mysterious_one on Nov 30, '06
  11. by   laughing weasel
    Every time that we changed instructors, the whole class's average would drop 20 points. Each instructor had their own philosophy on what was need to know. It was humbling to walk out with a 46 and still be in the top 5. I think that it is something the instructors may do on purpose to encourage harder studying. I think there are better ways. We were told that it is against state of Texas laws to grade on a curve. It is not against the rules to allow a retest. HMMMM!! There is always next test good luck and hang in there. They are really trying to do it for your own good (probably).
  12. by   HeartsOpenWide
    Let me give you a little insight on what was involved in this test.
    I found a part early in the test that seemed to be a mistake I went up to the teacher and asked her because it would drastically influence my answer. She said yes, that she made a mistake. Then she stood up, pointed out the mistake I caught and apologized because she had a busy thanksgiving break and cut and pasted a much of previous tests together and that there were a few mistakes in there.....and did not bother to point them all out.....on top of some of the question sounded like the were written during an acid trip.:spin:
    Last edit by HeartsOpenWide on Nov 30, '06
  13. by   Sheri257
    Unfortunately, sloppily written test questions are also all too typical in nursing school. You're lucky if they get the spelling right. I can't tell you how many typos and grammar errors we've seen in our tests, not to mention context errors.

    It all goes back to the same problem. If they're not getting paid for it ... they often don't bother to proof read the tests.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Nov 30, '06

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