University trained RN's or Hospital Trained, which would you prefer? - page 3

I am really bummed out being at University doing my RN training. There are many like me who dont have much information retained in our brains to prepare us for the real life nursing world. We get... Read More

  1. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Why so defensive? I don't quote Canadian statistics, but USA ones. I know it's different in Canada. I forgot you even LIVED in Canada, sorry.

    Must be that full moon affect, STILL for some of us. There is not need for us to "get into it" at all. I mean no disrespect.

    Just curious, do you have a lot of returning adult learners in nursing programs up in Canada?
  2. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Z'a a lot of people get defensive because in the US there is SO much infighting and backbiting among RN's as to "who has the better degree". Some say, ADNs are bringing the entire profession down, lowering the bar, if you will. They say unless and until we become all-BSN, nursing will never enjoy professional status, like pharmacy or physical/occupational therapy and others do.

    Others will claim, BSN's graduate clinically incompetent and unable to function at the bedside.......and still others knock the diploma for it's totally different education base, so poorly understood by nurses who have never seen such a program, or met one of its graduates except from long ago.

    You see, It's about a lot of people putting down one another's choices due to personal insecurity or spreading propaganda and quoting poorly-done studies as to how educational levels affect patient outcomes. It's about a lot of self-interest on the parts of universities and community colleges, too. It behooves them to say "their programs of study are best".

    Among professional nurses, there is a lot of disagreement as what the "entry point" to RN practice should be, and no where have I see it more apparent here, (At allnurses.com), where people are polarized and forced to defend their educational choices by some real cut-downs made against them.

    I hope this helps. Can we cool down a bit now?
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Apr 28, '05
  3. by   z's playa
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    Why so defensive? I don't quote Canadian statistics, but USA ones. I know it's different in Canada. I forgot you even LIVED in Canada, sorry.

    Must be that full moon affect, STILL for some of us. There is not need for us to "get into it" at all. I mean no disrespect.

    Just curious, do you have a lot of returning adult learners in nursing programs up in Canada?
    Yes we do have a lot of returning adult learners but we all need to go back to high school as adults or take a province wide test in order to still qualify for the diploma from highschool. Regardless of past education. I guess they want to make sure they didnt get all rusty or something. :chuckle

    As for not knowing that I came from Canada.....this is huge board..maybe before you get defensive you could take into consideration that exact point.

    Not everyone is from the States.

    and I NEVER put anyone down. You know this Blueeyes.

    so yeah....cooling down sounds good.

    Z
    Last edit by z's playa on Apr 28, '05
  4. by   SmilingBluEyes
    I did not say or even assume everyone comes from the States. I know it seems many of us Yanks think we are "all that" but I am not one of them.....

    It's true the majority here to come from the USA, and maybe I mistook you for one of them. If it seemed so, I apologize. I am not getting defensive but owning my part of the problem here. We miscommunicated, simple as that.

    As far as getting rusty, lots of adult-learners do FAR better than their newly graduated highschool class mates do---it would seem, having to pay for ones own schooling, and balance it with family and job, motivates many of them. Not too many tests are required for us to enter school at this point, just high school transcripts and maybe SAT/ACT for nursing school itself. Other than that, their grades speak for themselves, usually, and most RN programs here have very high standards for entry, whether they be ADN or BSN. Anyhow...

    I say let's just shake and "get over it already" ok? I am game. No hard feelings here.
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Apr 28, '05
  5. by   z's playa
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    I did not say or even assume everyone comes from the States. It's true the majority do, and maybe I mistook you for one of them. If it seemed so, I apologize. I say let's just shake and "get over it already" ok? I am game.

    Game.

    :flowersfo


    Z
  6. by   SmilingBluEyes
    kewl , nighters, my Canadian friend!!!! Sleep tight!
  7. by   RoxanRN
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    Others will claim, BSN's graduate clinically incompetent and unable to function at the bedside.......
    While I don't wish to get into an arguement about this statement, I have observed enough BSN-educated grad nurses to say this holds quite true about 80% of the time. I don't recall any of these grads (the ones I've had the privilage to know) to have worked as techs during school. The other 20% got their 'hands-on' education working as techs during school and can come out of school looking comfortable doing their job. True example: I had to talk a 4-year 'edumacated' BSN grad though how to place a foley - step-by-step - while I was but a tech (placing foleys was part of my job description). I found that to be rather scary - for her! :uhoh21:

    Conversly, I've found few ADN grads who DIDN'T work their way through school, thus the bedside is very familiar to them. Those who didn't work while in school still fared a bit better (IMO) than the BSNs who didn't work. It's all in how the programs are geared.

    Now, as nurse, I can usually spot the new grads who went to a BSN program vs an ADN program. They each look at things much differently and carry themselves a bit differently.

    Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. The above post is my opinion and I am NOT forcing it upon anyone as I'm sure each of us has our own varied opinions on this subject. Let's avoid flaming. :deadhorse

    Roxan
    RN
  8. by   SmilingBluEyes
    See, that is not my observation at all. I have worked with several new BSN grads who were as ready as any ADN to "hit the ground running" when they joined us. That first year, NO ONE is near anything you would call "competent". None of us were.....

    They all are new, all need a LOT of mentoring and guidance that first year. I can honestly say, I cannot tell a new BSN from a new ADN, just by their performance as new nurses. We either have some awesome BSN programs around here, or my observations skills suck. who knows.
  9. by   witnurse
    I hate to disagree as well however I have worked with all 3 levels of RN preparation over the last 35 years. The diploma grads DO hit the ground running so to speak and have the clinical "skills" down to a tee. The BSN nurses can talk a great game but shake at the sound of "Please put a foley in the patient in room ..."The ADN grads don't have as much theory, if they have been LNAs or LVN's they hit the ground running if not see reaction of BSN grad. HOWEVER give them all a year on a busy medsurg floor with an excellent orientation program including an excellent preceptor and at 1 year I will bet you will not be able to tell the difference. IMHO.

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