Teachers fueling the "my degree is better than your degree" problem - page 4

by ixchel | 3,681 Views | 34 Comments

I'm in a BSN program. I'm 32, with kids, and a husband who has been super supportive of me taking the longer approach to entering the nursing scene. I also hope to move on to a masters program in the future and don't want to do a... Read More


  1. 0
    To Grn Tee... or what ever...must be something in that stuff you are drinking.. I am a BSN graduate.... MS Nursing Admin graduate... was lucking enough to get PAID to go to nursing school both BSN and part of my masters... then did Post Master NP program...the hard way... working over full time and going to school full time and due to the craziness of doctorally prepared nursing faculty ended up with close to 80 hrs graduate work. 30 + years nursing experience... Med surg/ICU/ED/management.... and FNP-BC and at various times have had a ton of initials after my name ...now I run an oncology program.. so I too have been there done that and am fed up with the hijacking by the nursing profession's DNP's, educators, and researchers creating this debate over entry level education... those folks have to fill up the schools and set these artificial standards and create their course work and sell the books to keep their jobs...
    Interestingly enough during one of the professional development classes for NP ... the topic came up on "how women get along professionally"... only guy in the room of over 50 master's prepared women... even though I tried to hide .. the professor asked my my opinion... my response.. "you guys can't get along"... they all agreed ... then when I see a discussion like Grn Tea puts forth... I get royally ****** off... it hurts nursing.. is very polarizing...you do not see the medical providers doing this...

    First ...my DIPLOMA prepared RN sister... long before all this debate started... graduated over 40 yrs ago...recently did poster presentation at NCI of her research and long term med ICU nurse in a major university medical center... extremely smart and laughs at the poorly prepared BSN nurse... First example... let us all take out our licenses... and what ever state you are working .. they all look the same...
    Second... I can not count the number of nurses I have oriented or been preceptor to... the heart to be a nurse ... the drive to be compassionate... and to be a team player... and to do what is best for the patient .. no matter what degree your colleague next to you has when the patient is coding or needs the bed changed and butt wiped in the middle of a night shift... there are a ton of diploma nurses out there that I have more of these values and have more heart in their pinky finger nail than many of highly degree'd, tons of initials after their name nurses...
    Third.. had to laugh... bunch of the BSN new graduates that are going through a nursing residency program... and they are supposed to have a basic understanding of EKG's... "we did not get this in our clinical or classes"... as the lone AD program graduate said.."we had to know this and identify abnormal rhythm's and were tested on the ACLS algorithms in our clinical simulations...." A very high cost, well renowned 50K+ for BSN program that has "clinical" rotations at our hospital... I purposely have them share with me what "counts" as a clinical site and experience.....not even close to some of the local ADN programs... those nurses will run circle around BSN new grads...
    Fourth... yes we have several "Magnet" hospitals in our area and my oncology patients unfortunately end up there. Time and Time again the patient give the nursing staff my card... does any one call? no...do they try to find out about their cancer dx or work up or tx? No; do they verify the narcotics they are on? no do they arrange follow up? no.. .I have had patient go in withdrawal from their narcotics for pain control because no BSN prepared nurse bothered to verify their narc dosage with me... Magnet status is a marketing tool... so the local one will not take ADN application... good luck BSN... they recently fired a bunch of techs.. laid off all ancillary staff.. why? it is too expensive...duh!
    Finally, I love sharing with all the BSN students paying over 50K for education... my wife went to community college...way cheaper.. and has a license that looks just like mine... has a fantastic job... and is going to online accredited University of Texas, Arlington ... for $8500 total!...she actually has to take more classes than if she went to the BSN online program at local large state university program that I attended twice at the graduate level... they wanted 25K for that degree... the bottom line is this...with Obama care and ICD 10 coming... reimbursement is going to be dramatically decreased... and going to be expected to do more with less... so all those students doing doctorates for their NP's nice letters after your name but I can not afford to pay you more... and those loans you took out.. interest now starts accruing when you take out loan not when you graduate.. and it is at 6.85%... have fun paying that off...
    So green tea... we will need over 750K nurses in next few years... not even close to that number coming out of all BSN programs in US combined...mmm where will they come from.. ADN programs... so stop the chatter about entry level degrees... look at the heart and motivation to be a nurse provide caring and compassion... stop the madness and bickering... they passed boards just like you... and have demonstrated they have the knowledge to be a nurse... be supportive vs elitist...
  2. 0
    Quote from timmath99
    To Grn Tee... or what ever...must be something in that stuff you are drinking.. I am a BSN graduate.... MS Nursing Admin graduate... was lucking enough to get PAID to go to nursing school both BSN and part of my masters... then did Post Master NP program...the hard way... working over full time and going to school full time and due to the craziness of doctorally prepared nursing faculty ended up with close to 80 hrs graduate work. 30 + years nursing experience... Med surg/ICU/ED/management.... and FNP-BC and at various times have had a ton of initials after my name ...now I run an oncology program.. so I too have been there done that and am fed up with the hijacking by the nursing profession's DNP's, educators, and researchers creating this debate over entry level education... those folks have to fill up the schools and set these artificial standards and create their course work and sell the books to keep their jobs... Interestingly enough during one of the professional development classes for NP ... the topic came up on "how women get along professionally"... only guy in the room of over 50 master's prepared women... even though I tried to hide .. the professor asked my my opinion... my response.. "you guys can't get along"... they all agreed ... then when I see a discussion like Grn Tea puts forth... I get royally ****** off... it hurts nursing.. is very polarizing...you do not see the medical providers doing this... First ...my DIPLOMA prepared RN sister... long before all this debate started... graduated over 40 yrs ago...recently did poster presentation at NCI of her research and long term med ICU nurse in a major university medical center... extremely smart and laughs at the poorly prepared BSN nurse... First example... let us all take out our licenses... and what ever state you are working .. they all look the same...Second... I can not count the number of nurses I have oriented or been preceptor to... the heart to be a nurse ... the drive to be compassionate... and to be a team player... and to do what is best for the patient .. no matter what degree your colleague next to you has when the patient is coding or needs the bed changed and butt wiped in the middle of a night shift... there are a ton of diploma nurses out there that I have more of these values and have more heart in their pinky finger nail than many of highly degree'd, tons of initials after their name nurses... Third.. had to laugh... bunch of the BSN new graduates that are going through a nursing residency program... and they are supposed to have a basic understanding of EKG's... "we did not get this in our clinical or classes"... as the lone AD program graduate said.."we had to know this and identify abnormal rhythm's and were tested on the ACLS algorithms in our clinical simulations...." A very high cost, well renowned 50K+ for BSN program that has "clinical" rotations at our hospital... I purposely have them share with me what "counts" as a clinical site and experience.....not even close to some of the local ADN programs... those nurses will run circle around BSN new grads... Fourth... yes we have several "Magnet" hospitals in our area and my oncology patients unfortunately end up there. Time and Time again the patient give the nursing staff my card... does any one call? no...do they try to find out about their cancer dx or work up or tx? No; do they verify the narcotics they are on? no do they arrange follow up? no.. .I have had patient go in withdrawal from their narcotics for pain control because no BSN prepared nurse bothered to verify their narc dosage with me... Magnet status is a marketing tool... so the local one will not take ADN application... good luck BSN... they recently fired a bunch of techs.. laid off all ancillary staff.. why? it is too expensive...duh!Finally, I love sharing with all the BSN students paying over 50K for education... my wife went to community college...way cheaper.. and has a license that looks just like mine... has a fantastic job... and is going to online accredited University of Texas, Arlington ... for $8500 total!...she actually has to take more classes than if she went to the BSN online program at local large state university program that I attended twice at the graduate level... they wanted 25K for that degree... the bottom line is this...with Obama care and ICD 10 coming... reimbursement is going to be dramatically decreased... and going to be expected to do more with less... so all those students doing doctorates for their NP's nice letters after your name but I can not afford to pay you more... and those loans you took out.. interest now starts accruing when you take out loan not when you graduate.. and it is at 6.85%... have fun paying that off... So green tea... we will need over 750K nurses in next few years... not even close to that number coming out of all BSN programs in US combined...mmm where will they come from.. ADN programs... so stop the chatter about entry level degrees... look at the heart and motivation to be a nurse provide caring and compassion... stop the madness and bickering... they passed boards just like you... and have demonstrated they have the knowledge to be a nurse... be supportive vs elitist...
    You want to GrnTea to be supportive yet you just put down those studying in BSN programs or who have graduated with BSN & higher degrees. Just because someone has a BSN doesn't mean they will be a better nurse but that also goes vice versa.. just because someone has an ADN doesn't mean they are a better nurse either. It is purely based on the individual. As you said, "look at the heart and motivation to be a nurse provide caring and compassion... stop the madness and bickering..." You should listen to your own advice before putting down a whole category of nurses. Also, spending 50K on a BSN is crazy. The BSN programs by me are not nearly that high so thank you, but I will not be in debt when I graduate.
  3. 3
    Well, then. Welcome to allnurses, Tim. Quite a first post, there. And you've managed to illustrate your own point quite effectively.
    GrnTea, Luckyyou, and zoe92 like this.
  4. 0
    Awww my peeps!

    Always follow the money.

    Now, nurses who have been around for decades were able to begin their careers in a totally different time and space for nurses. Some have exited stage left for a much less dangerous lifestyle. Don't you think they'd guard the availability of that lifestyle? Your school is doing what it can to keep you all from switching your major. True this. This is a big reality for colleges as people wise up to the problem of nursing. The problem is getting press, thank God! And people are acting on this information. This means a fear of lower enrollment in nursing colleges and then what follows is staff lay-offs. They know how impressionable many kids are, even older nursing students who maybe never had a career (Moms). OP, you are right to wonder, what you feel is going on is going on.

    Always look at the motivation. It's always gonna be money.

    Here is the truth. Once you've been working for years and years, one tends to stop caring. You just want to keep your job till you retire. Also if you find that a little manipulation keeps bringing in the money honey, many will happily do just that! Unfortunately, in healthcare due to the heaviness of what we do, it is even easier not to care what path you lead people down. Hey after all it's your money, and not theirs, and you will soon graduate and you will disappear into the ether.
  5. 0
    I've heard much from both sides in this debate and in a way, I have a dual perspective having earned a bachelors degree in my 20's before making a career change to nursing in my 30's with an associates degree. When I compare what I hear to what I have experienced, I feel comfortable saying that the majority of the pros and cons on either side are completely speculative and often times emphasized simply because the person speculating is taking an opportunity to defend his or her own life decisions.

    In reality, it depends. Whether someone is making the smartest decision when choosing BSN or ADN depends almost entirely on individual circumstances.


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