Teachers fueling the "my degree is better than your degree" problem - page 3

by ixchel | 3,691 Views | 34 Comments

I'm in a BSN program. I'm 32, with kids, and a husband who has been super supportive of me taking the longer approach to entering the nursing scene. I also hope to move on to a masters program in the future and don't want to do a... Read More


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    ^^exactly. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your education. Higher education is always a good thing, but telling people "this is why you'll be a better nurse than that ADN nurse over there" is the wrong approach.
    heartsgal and gummi bear like this.
  2. 0
    Eloquently put, GrnTea, always.

    I think we can all agree that more education, as well as quality education, is better.

    I am proud of my roots. I found being in those same positions made me respectful of who is a part of the nursing care team...I have found when I did get through my BSN program, the WHY did click, but I knew the why prior...but it was more CLEAR when I got there.

    I am grateful of the knowledge, and the exposures of my program and the courses that helped built on the previous education. It is true that the BSN program I went to had research which went into nursing theory, which can really understand the WHY of your practice, as well as the more in-depth aspects of our practice.

    However, not many have the immediate opportunity to go the BSN route...I went the 12-year plan...I probably could've been a Dr., lol, but I choose Nursing
  3. 0
    Quote from soxgirl2008
    ^^exactly. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your education. Higher education is always a good thing, but telling people "this is why you'll be a better nurse than that ADN nurse over there" is the wrong approach.
    ^Agreed...too bad we don't know how her actual "delivery" was...hope she doesn't affect too many minds if it that is how she "approached" it
  4. 0
    Quote from LadyFree28
    Eloquently put, GrnTea, always.

    I think we can all agree that more education, as well as quality education, is better.

    I am proud of my roots. I found being in those same positions made me respectful of who is a part of the nursing care team...I have found when I did get through my BSN program, the WHY did click, but I knew the why prior...but it was more CLEAR when I got there.

    I am grateful of the knowledge, and the exposures of my program and the courses that helped built on the previous education. It is true that the BSN program I went to had research which went into nursing theory, which can really understand the WHY of your practice, as well as the more in-depth aspects of our practice.

    However, not many have the immediate opportunity to go the BSN route...I went the 12-year plan...I probably could've been a Dr., lol, but I choose Nursing
    woah, how'd you get 12 years into your plan? is that including a lvn first? or a doctorate? just curious
  5. 1
    Until recently the ADN-RN to BSN route had a huge advantage over the strait BSN route. Previous to about 2008 the only advantage of the strait BSN route was the whole "college experience". For young high school grads it really was the way to go IMO. However for adult students the ADN-RN to BSN was a really good option and provided many advantages not offered by the strait BSN route. In my opinion many grads of strait BSN programs were jelous of the advantages enjoyed by the ADN-RN to BSN route. Things have changed. With so many hospitals prefering to hire new grads with BSNs over ADNs the BSN provides advantages that the ADN-RN to BSN route can't offer.
    I find the huge expence of many BSN prgrams hard to justify considering that so many new grad RNs starting pay is around $20-$24 and hour. Pretty good pay for a two year program costing less than $10K, questionable for a program that takes 4 years and cost $60K plus.
    I did ADN RN in two years, as many people do in my state. Actualy only went to school 16 months, four, 4 month semesters for a total cost of around $6K. Then when I decided I wanted to go to CRNA school I did an RN to BSN program in a little less than a year. Don't let anyone blow smoke up your backside about new grads with a BSN being superior nurses to new grads with an ADN. It simply isn't true. I have a lot of experience teaching and precepting in my hospital's critical care nurse residency program. It is a very challenging 9 month program with high academic standards. Plenty of new grads wash out. We were unable to predict who would pass the program and go on to be competent critical care nurses based on the degree they brought to the program. We did notice that those who were a little older and had more life experience did better. Another thing we noticed is that so few of the new grad BSNs actually finish the 2 year contract they signed to get into the program vs 100% of ADN grads finishing the contract. In addition the BSN grads were a little more costly to train since they came to us without having been trained in many basic nursing skills. So while the ADN grads were learning about hemodynamics, or emergency procedures, or slicing up pig hearts, or observing a CABG operation, the BSN grads were down in same day surgery learning to place IVs, or in the ER placing NG tubes, or with lab learning to draw blood. Its hard to concentrate on learning critical thinking and priorities when you are concentrating on basic hands on skills.
    In the end though plenty with both degrees washed out and plenty with both degrees went on to be competent ICU nurses.
    Esme12 likes this.
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    In Fla all credits from an ASN received from a public college transfer directly to a BSN from a public University, which is nice since my hospital is paying for most of my classes.
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    "Exposure" isn't the same as "a semester doing it." But I take your point otherwise.
  8. 1
    Quote from nguyency77

    GrnTea:
    Someday soon I'm going to make a GrnTea appreciation thread, lol!

    Awwww, that is so sweet. Lots of people here do their best to help students-- Esme, Ruby Vee, HouTx, Kel, and so many more. We don't generally sugar coat things and people don't always like what they hear, but it's the truth born of long experience as nurses, teachers, managers, and preceptors, and we believe in making sure you have the information you need.

    (You can pick up your check at the end of the month. )
    Esme12 likes this.
  9. 0
    Quote from Jujubees

    woah, how'd you get 12 years into your plan? is that including a lvn first? or a doctorate? just curious
    Yes, I went the ADN route, did not do well, LPN, worked, then BSN...it took me from 1999-2012 to get the BSN. If I was well prepared, from counseling, (I am the only nurse in the family, so no one was able to tell me the "hard knocks" of nursing...I learned them on my own) I would've went to school and got my BSN in the first place, stepped out of my comfort zone and just did it. But I was not prepared. But it was a great ride, and I am enjoying it as a new RN grad.
  10. 0
    Quote from IndiCRNA
    Until recently the ADN-RN to BSN route had a huge advantage over the strait BSN route. Previous to about 2008 the only advantage of the strait BSN route was the whole "college experience". For young high school grads it really was the way to go IMO. However for adult students the ADN-RN to BSN was a really good option and provided many advantages not offered by the strait BSN route. In my opinion many grads of strait BSN programs were jelous of the advantages enjoyed by the ADN-RN to BSN route. Things have changed. With so many hospitals prefering to hire new grads with BSNs over ADNs the BSN provides advantages that the ADN-RN to BSN route can't offer.
    I find the huge expence of many BSN prgrams hard to justify considering that so many new grad RNs starting pay is around $20-$24 and hour. Pretty good pay for a two year program costing less than $10K, questionable for a program that takes 4 years and cost $60K plus.
    I did ADN RN in two years, as many people do in my state. Actualy only went to school 16 months, four, 4 month semesters for a total cost of around $6K. Then when I decided I wanted to go to CRNA school I did an RN to BSN program in a little less than a year. Don't let anyone blow smoke up your backside about new grads with a BSN being superior nurses to new grads with an ADN. It simply isn't true. I have a lot of experience teaching and precepting in my hospital's critical care nurse residency program. It is a very challenging 9 month program with high academic standards. Plenty of new grads wash out. We were unable to predict who would pass the program and go on to be competent critical care nurses based on the degree they brought to the program. We did notice that those who were a little older and had more life experience did better. Another thing we noticed is that so few of the new grad BSNs actually finish the 2 year contract they signed to get into the program vs 100% of ADN grads finishing the contract. In addition the BSN grads were a little more costly to train since they came to us without having been trained in many basic nursing skills. So while the ADN grads were learning about hemodynamics, or emergency procedures, or slicing up pig hearts, or observing a CABG operation, the BSN grads were down in same day surgery learning to place IVs, or in the ER placing NG tubes, or with lab learning to draw blood. Its hard to concentrate on learning critical thinking and priorities when you are concentrating on basic hands on skills.
    In the end though plenty with both degrees washed out and plenty with both degrees went on to be competent ICU nurses.
    I have to enlighten you, Indi. My school gave us the advantage of being taught basic skills in a sim lab, as well as on the floor, and combined the importance-the WHY for thinking critically...just FYI. And I have experienced ADN (was not successful) LPN, (successful, graduated) and BSN (successful, graduated) programs. I was able to do those skills, and made sure to be an advocate for myself to be exposed...sometimes people don't take advantage of the opportunities in clinical, thus, maybe not "cutting it" in a preceptor program. In the organization that I started with today, the process of getting them to acquire skills, is very receptive of having someone coming in cold, and building on Benner's novice to expert clinical model-again, it's up to the person with this opportunity to be active in acquiring their experience, regardless of ADN or RN.

    I have also precepted both in my own experience as a LPN and a RN, and had ADN and BSN nurses struggle to make the connections. I think it really comes down to the person, and how "active" you want to be in honing your clinical expertise, just my 2 cents.


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