Students - page 4

I'd like to know why students hide in the break room or hide at the nurse's station while call lights are going off and the RNs are running around like chickens w/their heads cut off. They'll even... Read More

  1. by   jackson145
    I like to stay busy and I like to be helpful, but it seems like "no good deed goes unpunished". When I was a clerk at the hospital, nurses were always asking me to help out if I wasn't busy. At first I loved to, because I knew I wanted to be a nurse and by helping out I got to observe a lot. I never got much of a thanks, though, and boy if you screwed something up they sure were nasty. It didn't seem right to get your butt chewed for doing something incorrectly when you are just a secretary trying to help out. It just wasn't worth it. Also, I made 5.25/hour compared to their 25.00/hr and I was supposed to try and make their job easier while keeping up with my own? I've become much more jaded since those long-ago fresh-faced days!
    These days, at work or school, I do exactly what I'm instructed that I am there to do. If I want to help someone out with something, first I check with whoever happens to be my "boss" at the time to make sure I'm not borrowing trouble for myself.
  2. by   NightOwl0624
    Quote from irishnurse67
    I know I'm going to get slammed for this, but I still insist that fully 25% of students are lazy.

    75% are great-I even ask them questions! And I'm no dummy-I know that many will be my future co-workers so I try to kiss butt just a little bit and teach them what I can.
    I'm glad you clarified a bit. It sounds like you are very frustrated, and I'm sorry about that. You sound like a kind and giving nurse.

    You're probably right about the 25%. In my group of 10, there are always 2 or 3 hiding in the conference room, not wanting to participate in much. Four have worked as CNAs or techs, so they are extremely comfortable and eager. The other four of us are nervous beyond belief. I am having trouble being proactive - I just feel overwhelmed and am trying to do the best that I am assigned to do.

    If students are not cooperative, especially after being spoken to, then it is a problem that should be dealt with. Students should learn to be a part of the team from the very beginning.

    But, from the tone of your original post, I could really identify with the students being confused, intimidated and scared. I hope things get better for you, and I hope the nurses I work with do not think that I am lazy!
  3. by   pinkmarshmallow
    I'm a 3rd year student nurse in Scotland, and I know for a fact that most wards that I have worked on treat students as if they are staff, and we are expected to care for patients in pretty much the same way as registered nurses. If a call light goes off, anyone who is free would be expected to answer it, regardless of whether it is your patient that requires assistance or not. Also, if any nurse, HCA or other student needed help, I would be more than willing to do so. So don't tar all of us with the same brush, I know some students are like that but don't adopt this attitude with all of us, as most of us are eager to learn and not lazy!!
  4. by   1BUSY SN
    Quote from irishnurse67
    i'm the op and the reason i havn't responded in a few days is b/c i've been working a lot and taking care of my three kids and my big old house. i'm sure you can all relate to being busy.
    yes much too busy to spend time complaining about everything.

    as to the poster who said that people around me probably can't stand me, i don't think so. i've had nurses tell me many times that they're happy to come in and take on my assignment b/c i usually have everything done and my pts are usually in a good mood and their needs have been taken care of. the only thing i've been accused of that's negative is that sometimes i give to pts too much, but i find that killing w/kindness goes a long way. being patient w/the pts isn't a bad thing., i don't think. i have never been written up for anything.
    having everything done is great but still others may be put off by you if you complain constantly or show them your cloudy side. i can appreciate an efficient person and still not like them because they aren't nice to others.

    to the poster who said that i hate my job. yes, i do. i do love caring for my pts and even the grumpy ones i can usually get to chuckle. i just hate that hospitals have their first priority as making money instead of taking care of sick people. i also hate that a main objective by admin is to kiss jcaho's butt.
    every job has an administrative side that we, as employees, will not agree with or like. those administrators have issues with their administrators. and so on and so on... it is helpful to try to concentrate on those things that we can change or influence and try to bring about change effectively. voicing an opinion about your disagreement with policies occasionally is fine because we all need to blow off steam but complaining is wasted energy and does not effect change. is it possible that you are taking out your frustration with administrative policy on what you feel is a weaker opponent (students). just fyi - we all fought our way into school which speaks great things about our strength and resolve.

    as for the students-the phone thing: when i was a student and the phone rang and no one was around to answer it, i'd answer it and say, "pacu, this is amy." whoever was on the other line would ask for so and so and i'd put the phone down on the counter after i asked the person to please hold and tell the first staff member that so and so had a phone call and where could i find that person.
    that is great if you were allowed to do that. we, like you, have a boss and our own set of rules to follow. the rules in ns are subject to/ and do change frequently. maybe the students are not allowed to answer the phone. maybe they don't know the system and have been made to feel badly the last time they answered because someone did not feel that they performed appropriately. behind every act - there is a reason. perhaps using the kindness you brag about to find out what lies beneath the exterior of a students actions would benefit everyone.

    at our hospital and at the school where we get students, the students are allowed to answer lights. depeding on the need of the pt, they are allowed to help the pt. for ex, if a pt asks for a student to please hand him a book on his nightstand, the student can do it. in ma, if you have passed a semester of nsg school, it's the same as having a cna license and you can perform all of the duties of a cna. the school approves this. i always ask the students what they can and cannot do and tell them i'm sorry that they can't do certain things and that i will find them so that they can watch me do things they're not allowed to do.
    has someone else instructed them not to do certain things? are they unsure of what the facility will let them do? are you/other nurses continually showing frustration/exasperation with their presence on the floor. i can assure you this will change a students perspective on helpfulness. you know you get what ya give. also do the techs/cna disappear when the students hit the floor? as someone else posted - we are their not to fill gaps in the schedule but to learn. we also have a set of assignments we must complete for our ci.
    i've had students tell me that their primary nurse is off the flr and that their pt needed pain med. i always tell them that it's no problem and i do it. i document that i did it in the mar. i don't need the student to tell me that i need to document it in the nurse's note right away before i do something else. if i need to take stat orders off a chart and i tell a student this and could i please have the chart, i don't need the student to tell me that she'll give it to me when she's done w/it. if i need to look up labs on the computer and a student is in front of it and i ask the student if i could please steal that seat for a minute to look up labs, i don't need attitude. if a doctor is about to do something interesting and i ask the pt if she'd mind if students came in, you'd think they'd want to observe, esp when their teacher encourages them to do so.
    although their would be no excuse ever for this behavior i am wondering from the tone of all your posts if others aren't responding to your attitude or approach to them. you come off in 90% of your posts negatively. perhaps you also send this message to people when you are face to face and are so caught up in the habit that you no longer realize that this is how you are percieved. if student are in fact performing inthis manner please approach the instructor as they will want to resolve it and discuss with their student what is happening.
    when students come in to get their assignment and they ask me for interesting pts, i love to help. i enjoy helping them find all their info b/c it must be hard finding it all when all the flrs are different. if a student needs help w/a pt, i feel flatterred that they ask me. when i see them struggling over stupid paperwork that the school makes them do (even though they won't learn anything useful from it) i like to help them. i frequently have students come up to for help and they sometimes say that they chose to approach me b/c i haven't been mean to them. i know i'm going to get slammed for this, but i still insist that fully 25% of students are lazy.
    if you are truly as compassionate and kind as you say i am confused by your complaint as well as your blanket statement about laziness. perhaps it is not laziness but a lack of direction, confidence, understanding. or maybe the student feels overwhelmed and unsure of how to proceed. i truly believe if you are as compassionate as you say that you would think about this 1st before making those kinds of statements. how much do you really talk to the students????
    75% are great-i even ask them questions! and i'm no dummy-i know that many will be my future co-workers so i try to kiss butt just a little bit and teach them what i can.
    then love to teach and please don't be so judgemental. if you truly don't like to teach or are frustrated by students please voice this to your charge. i am sure they would appreciate the honesty and you will get to avoid students. if you currently have no students assigned to you then i ask why are you worried about what someone elses syudents are/are not doing!

    and for the person with the hot chocolate comment-i nver make students hot chocolate, but i do make them coffee and buy them donuts.
    we as students look to professional nurses to learn about the kind of nurses we want to become. we do this by observation as well as communication. please be aware that you influence positively or negatively those future nurse. please also remember the compassion, empathy, and guidance that you needed when you were a student. pass these traits on. the best gift you can give is the benefit of your experience. it is hard to pass on those gifts when you can see through the wall of judgement that you are building.

    as future nurses i am so happy to see each and every one come together in support on this board for what we feel is wrong. thank you all.:spin:
  5. by   ayla2004
    Quote from pinkmarshmallow
    I'm a 3rd year student nurse in Scotland, and I know for a fact that most wards that I have worked on treat students as if they are staff, and we are expected to care for patients in pretty much the same way as registered nurses. If a call light goes off, anyone who is free would be expected to answer it, regardless of whether it is your patient that requires assistance or not. Also, if any nurse, HCA or other student needed help, I would be more than willing to do so. So don't tar all of us with the same brush, I know some students are like that but don't adopt this attitude with all of us, as most of us are eager to learn and not lazy!!
    I'm a 3rd year in england and have had pretty much the same experience answer buzzers always prefer having had some knowledge or handover on that patient, answer the phones not so keen when its my first week on a new placement and i don't know who most people are etc. and generally get stuck in, making myself useful to get a good relationship with staff. I've met lazy students ones who don't like certain jobs ect.
  6. by   HappyDay
    As a clinical student, I have been instructed to NEVER answer a call light for a pt that I am not assinged to. There was a case a couple years back where a nursing student helped a nurse to ambulate a pt to the bathroom. The pt was not assinged to either the student or nurse. She had a complication and passed away. Neither student or nurse had checked to see that she was on strict bed rest. The nurse lost her liscense, and the student was let go from the nursing program.

    For these reasons, I am only allowed to assist my assigned pts. It has nothing to do with lazyness or timidness or anything else. It is a protective measure by my nursing school to prevent any student from litigation.
  7. by   HeartsOpenWide
    I am not sure what you are talking about, but I know better than not to generalize. No one in my class does this. We answer call lights and get report with the rest of the RNs. Sorry if a few of your students make the rest of us look bad.
  8. by   CRNA2BKY
    Quote from irishnurse67
    I'd like to know why students hide in the break room or hide at the nurse's station while call lights are going off and the RNs are running around like chickens w/their heads cut off. They'll even sit right next to a ringing phone while you're in the middle of doing something important. I never did this as a student. And why do they get to the hospital the same time as I do and want report from me instead of listening to it w/the rest of us?
    I have had the exact OPPOSITE experience at the hospital where I do my clinicals, and work as a nurse's aid also. ALL the nurses just stand around by the phone yacking away, while aids have to do everything. As students, we are not expected to answer the phones, because we have so much learning about 1 or 2 patients. We are kept busy, so we DO NOT answer the phones. However, the nurses who actually work there and get paid to answer the phones just sit or stand around ALL THE TIME chit-chatting away, while the phone right next to them (seriously, not more than 1-foot away from them) will ring, and ring, and ring, and ring..(you get the idea), for over 5 minutes, and not one of them has the courtesy to answer the darn thing. Those nurses are the laziest bunch of girls I have ever seen in my life!
  9. by   MB37
    Irishnurse - did the same person write your first and your second posts? You should go back and reread what you wrote, because the intent - especially when posted to the student forum - appeared to be to gripe and inflame. I understand that people frequently come on here to vent, but an open question directed to all of us students, who probably aren't the lazy ones on your floor, isn't going to find much sympathy. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with some students on your floor. Perhaps those students were scared or overwhelmed that day, but if there's a pattern I'd recommend talking to their instructor. He/she can explain to you what they are and are not allowed to do if there is any misunderstanding, and reeducate the students on what their responsibilities are on the floor. I know that my nurses can't possible keep track of what the students from various semesters and four different schools can and can not do when they come to the floor, so I make sure I remind them each week ("I can't pass meds yet, but if you have anything interesting I'd like to watch, no I'm not allowed to take TB patients, and we can't hang blood until we graduate..."). I also hand my preceptor a card each morning, that states exactly what skills I'm checked off on, and what my focus is for the day. I hope that all that makes his/her job a little easier, especially if they have more than one of us assigned to their patients. Our instructor told us to do that - maybe if you have a chat with the CIs on your floor, they can figure a way to improve communication between nurses and students.
  10. by   irishnurse67
    Quote from MB37
    Irishnurse - did the same person write your first and your second posts? You should go back and reread what you wrote, because the intent - especially when posted to the student forum - appeared to be to gripe and inflame. I understand that people frequently come on here to vent, but an open question directed to all of us students, who probably aren't the lazy ones on your floor, isn't going to find much sympathy. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with some students on your floor. Perhaps those students were scared or overwhelmed that day, but if there's a pattern I'd recommend talking to their instructor. He/she can explain to you what they are and are not allowed to do if there is any misunderstanding, and reeducate the students on what their responsibilities are on the floor. I know that my nurses can't possible keep track of what the students from various semesters and four different schools can and can not do when they come to the floor, so I make sure I remind them each week ("I can't pass meds yet, but if you have anything interesting I'd like to watch, no I'm not allowed to take TB patients, and we can't hang blood until we graduate..."). I also hand my preceptor a card each morning, that states exactly what skills I'm checked off on, and what my focus is for the day. I hope that all that makes his/her job a little easier, especially if they have more than one of us assigned to their patients. Our instructor told us to do that - maybe if you have a chat with the CIs on your floor, they can figure a way to improve communication between nurses and students.
    Judging from their bold attitudes, I don't think the group of students we have right now is overwhelmed or scared. I have talked to the instructor and so has our DON, nurse manager, clinical educator and the clinical ed's assistant. They have also spoken to the school. We the nurses are also told in detail what the students can and cannot do.
  11. by   smk1
    Quote from irishnurse67
    Judging from their bold attitudes, I don't think the group of students we have right now is overwhelmed or scared. I have talked to the instructor and so has our DON, nurse manager, clinical educator and the clinical ed's assistant. They have also spoken to the school. We the nurses are also told in detail what the students can and cannot do.
    Well if nothing has changed and you have already gone through the proper channels, I would become assertive. Don't ask them to do things, tell them. "I need you to do ____" or " I'm going to be charting for awhile so I need that chair, you can go and get one for yourself from____", I'm going to take the chart for the next 15 minutes, you can have it back then.", "I need you to go and see what patient____ wants" You need to take care of _____ before breaktime or lunch." No need to be rude, but use a tone that brooks no argument. It sounds like you are dealig with a bunch of children so perhaps that is how you have to talk to them. Don't go out of your way to teach them things, and keep things simple for yourself by having little interaction with them". I honestly have never heard of anything like this. I can't imagine students getting aways with this kind of behavior. The nurses have to express at least a minimum of confidence in our skills and behavior for us to pass clinical out here.
  12. by   irishnurse67
    TO 1BUSYSN: The system won't allow me to post the way I'd like, but this is in resonse to your last post.

    First off, I don't complain about everything. I'm only complaining about the students on my flr. On my last annual review, one staff comment was that I DON'T complain.

    As to you saying you can appreciate those who are efficient but not like them if they're not kind to others, please reread my post and see that I do kill w/kindness and that I'm patient w/my patients. My co-workers compliment me on my attitude. I'm very laid-back.

    I disagree that we need to put up w/administration b/c people'w lives are more important than $ and keeping up appearances.

    The students ARE allowed to answer phones and call lights. They ARE allowed to toilet pts that aren't theirs. Like I already said, we are told what they can and cannot do. If they don't want to handle a pt that isn't theirs, fine. But they can hand a pt a book/blanket or give a pt an emesis basin if he's vomiting. This is teamwork.

    My face to face attitude is great-ask anyone, honest.

    I talk to students all the time b/c, like I already said, the students themselves say they approach me b/c I'm not mean to them.

    And I often have students assigned to me b/c I try not to bust their you-know-whats.
    Last edit by irishnurse67 on Dec 4, '07 : Reason: posted before words were put in
  13. by   MB37
    Don't have a solution for you then - we've lost one student from our clinical group, and it was because he got a poor performance review from his nurse ONE week. He had a little bit of an attitude, but was otherwise a decent (B) student who was eager to learn. Each week our preceptor fills out a little report card on each of us, grading us as unsatisfactory, needs improvement, satisfactory, or exceeds expectations in several categories. Then there are areas for general comments and strengths and weaknesses. I always give this to them in the morning so I'm not asking them to fill out two pages when it's time for post-conference. Perhaps the school you work with could institute something similar? Then you'd have a way to give the instructor feedback each week, and something would be done about students who aren't doing their jobe. What you're experiencing is certainly not the norm.

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