student nurse dreading outcome of misjudgement - page 2

Hello everyone. I'll make this short and to he point. My friend is in nursing school now and made a error in judgement. He was caught shoplifting at a department store. The item was a little over 100... Read More

  1. by   NurCrystal22
    Quote from nursing213
    Hello everyone. I'll make this short and to he point. My friend is in nursing school now and made a error in judgement. He was caught shoplifting at a department store. The item was a little over 100 dollars. He is 22,this is his first offense, doesn't have a lot of money and out of desparation he made a very bad decision. My question is can he still be an LPN,or even take the exam if when the time comes a criminal backround check shows simple larceny? My fiend has been a nervous wreck since this has happened and regrets making a bad choice which he feels may jepardize his future. I don't know what to tell him so can someone please reply back. Thank you I appreciate you taking the time to view this message.
    Okay, so he's in nursing school now? and this JUST HAPPENED?
    He'll have to talk to his state's BON, a lot of times they consider how long ago the conviction occured, but if it's recent.... I don't know what they are going to say. I know someone in the same situation, he's in his last semester of school and has had a conviction from about 2 years ago for shoplifting, but he found out he'll be able to sit for boards, finding a job might be a problem.
    I am also 22, and I have 3 misdemeanors on my criminal record, which occurred right out of highschool and I'm currently and LPN, Work on a med/surg floor in a hospital, and I'm going to school for my R.N. so..... I guess it all depends... If you want to talk you can Private message me, or Instate message me at mizcrystal2u@aol.com.

    ~Crystal
  2. by   chris_at_lucas_RN
    Quote from button2cute
    Chris, I respectively agree to disagree with your statements. How can you be as strict and judgemental toward this young gentleman.
    Hello, Button, thanks for taking the time to read and respond to my post.

    I can be strong about my concerns about someone whose critical judgment is clearly impaired, because the guidelines set down for our profession, by people with many more years than I have, many years ago (and still) have said this is an important thing to be concerned about, and this is why. If it didn't matter, then no BON would care. The fact that they do is not arbitrary (without reason or cause), it is because it is their job to protect the public from unsafe nurses.
    Quote from button2cute
    Yes, he made a fatal error in his life and does not mean he is a worthless human being.
    No offense, but I don't think this error was fatal, nor did I say (nor do I believe) that he is a "worthless human being." I just believe that someone who engages in illegal behavior has no business being responsible for the safety and well being of vulnerable persons (such as sick people).
    Quote from button2cute
    He will have to face the jury, judge and those who will be in court. Most likely, they will place him on probation and community hours.. It is not for us to be the young man's judge and/or jury.
    I didn't judge, I'm not his jury, I don't know the facts of his crime, all I have to go on is the OP's information, which sounded pretty clear. In most states, over a hundred dollars is grand larceny, which is a felony, which means that in the eyes of the community, it's serious.
    Quote from button2cute
    It is our job to give him suppot, explain and give adice or suggestion and to call the BON in his state. He is already aware of his actions and the effects of his action and how they effects other issues in his life.
    It's not my job to give him support (he didn't even post here, his friend did). And while he may be aware of his actions (let's hope so since it appears he would like to be a nurse!), it appears he may not know the rest. I've always found it interesting that people who commit crimes, knowing full well what they were doing, don't seem to be too concerned about the consequences while they are doing it. So he might be aware now, but I didn't read any evidence to that in the first post.

    The reality--which may not be what he would like--is that his act puts him in with a group of people who have a higher probability of not being the type of person who should do nursing. That's why they have the rules about criminal records and why they bother to check.
    Quote from button2cute
    They are many nurses, who are currently working in medical facilities. Some had drug chemical dependence issues and they were given a another chance in the career of nursing with restrictions.
    This is not about chemical dependency, which is an illness that can be treated, this is about someone who committed a major theft while (apparently) clean and sober.
    Quote from button2cute
    He is entitle to be a LPN and to be given a chance as everyone else. I would allow this gentleman to stay in my home without me being present. I will show him respect as well as give him an oporturnity to be a coworker if I was on the board.
    I don't know that he is an LPN or RN nursing student, but no one is "entitled" to be one. It is a privilege that one works toward and earns. You don't know this guy (unless there is a relationship you haven't disclosed to us), but you would let him stay in your home? I hope you don't mean that. Remember: Strangers can be danger.
    Quote from button2cute
    How long should this gentleman for his mistake in society?
    Guess that will be up the judge and the jury.
    Quote from button2cute
    Should he just have a career in crime because people do not want him in a respectful, high standards and professional career?
    Guess that will be his choice. And consider that "a respectful, high standards and professional career" is that way because of the calibre of the individuals in it, and the standards set by the profession itself. So no, if this is the sort of thing he might do, I don't think he probably should be, which is why I suggested that he might consider a different line of work. (Shame to work so hard, learn all that stuff and be refused a license or get the license but not be able to work because one is a thief. Better to find a line of work which might be more forgiving.)
    Quote from button2cute
    Everyone has made mistakes in their lives and dealt with the consequences. It does not matter if the mistakes were criminial or non criminal intent.....it was a mistake. Forgiveness and the opportunity for one to repent their wrong doing.
    Not everyone has dealt with the consequences. (Consider the young man in question: if he is trying to avoid the natural consequences of his act--not being able to be licensed--is he dealing with the consequences? Or avoiding them?) And it really does matter about criminality and intent. If I accidentally say something that hurts your feelings, that's wrong of course. But if I get mad at you and key your car and intend to do so (molesting a standing vehicle, committing mischief and a couple of other misdemeanors, depending on your locale), that's a crime. Big difference. And we aren't talking about a calm, cool headed, planned out theft, we are talking about a crime of passion (sort of).
    Quote from button2cute
    For example, I was in the first year of nursing school when I did something stupid. I went down to the shore and to let loose. Then I did not drink because of my medicine. I fell asleep and my friends called me for a ride. I went to the bar and of course, they were not ready. I order a corna drank four gulps and 3/4 of the beer is left. We left the bar and I had keys in my hand and I was arrested. The charge was the intent to drive under the influence and I was pissed. I blew an 0.08% and they tried to say my medications was illegal. I went through so much crap because of my choice of drinking a beer. Prior to the court hearing, I went to the first offense program and twenty hours of community services. The judge commend me for taking the steps of the first offense program and I had to stay on probation for two months.The judge explained to me, the medications could had affect my thought prooccees as well as my coordination and tonever do it again. I did not get dismiss from nursing school, I sat for certification and pass, I work as a RN. My patients love me and my work is good. Therefore, I learned from mistake and I was able to practice without restrictions.
    Your situation and the young man's situation were not the same at all. He isn't on medication, he wasn't in an altered state of mind. I didn't understand everything you wrote, but what I do understand is that you empathize with him. Could having had a similar experience possibly make you more willing to look the other way in his case? Does that mean he is suitable nursing material, just because you are? IMHO, it doesn't.
    Quote from button2cute
    I do not go around looking for alcohol or drugs in my patient's rooms and I am not chemical dependent. I made a choice that could had cost my caeer in 1998.
    Again, it sounds like you don't have a drug problem, you had a medication which caused some amount of alcohol to influence you excessively, then had the misfortune of being caught with your keys in your hand (which made you legally in control of your vehicle while impaired).
    Quote from button2cute
    I will not judge this gentleman at all and I will give him the guidance and support.
    That would be your choice--as I've observed earlier, it does sound like you have a relationship with him that you aren't disclosing. And friendships can certainly influence how we might feel about how someone's bad acts affect them.
    Quote from button2cute
    Please do not be so harsh on an individual due to his action that lead him into this situation. He will pay for his mistake emotionally, mentally, in the court room and maybe the BON.
    I don't think I was harsh, I didn't call any names, I made no statements of judgment about a particular individual's worthiness, and I think I may have even stated that in my post. However, I have very strong concerns about the "high standards" of nursing if a felon can hold a license.

    You have a good weekend too, Buttons.
  3. by   mariedoreen
    Quote from chris_at_lucas_RN
    (Okay, I guess I am going to have to be the bad guy here.....)

    A $100 shoplift by a 22 year old (as opposed to a child) is not an "error in judgment." It is an indication of character.
    I have to agree. At 22 an error in judgment is making a lane change without looking behind you and accidentally side-swiping grandma in the green Lincoln. Intentionally picking up $100 worth of merchandise and sticking it down your pants is just something else entirely.
  4. by   button2cute
    Hello, All

    Chris,
    I will not get offended by your thoughts and assumptions about my personal life. I do not know the young man at all and I never in my life had an encounter with the law like this gentleman. I only had one encounter and I revealed it. Therefore, do not make statements about the gentleman and myself.

    Chris, I am saying to you that many people do something by a drive within themselves for one reason or another. When they act upon this drive then it is their choose. They will have to deal with the consequences of their choice and take responsibility and ownership of their choice. I do not believe this young man is trying to dodge his responsibilities of his choice at all.

    The question was how would it effect his nursing license in the future? Well, we all agreed on this post it will be in the hands of the nursing board of his state. We cannot really give an answer because we are not on the board of nursing and we do not know the guidelines for that state. Every case is handle individually and it is also depend on the evidence presented as well. Yes, I would love to see how they handle this case and many other cases.

    Chris, I will not be a person who lives in a glass house and throw the first stone at another glass house. I can show empathy for any individual who made the wrong choice in his life and also, say he is responsible for his actions. This gentleman obivously choose to commit this crime for an unknown reason. I would love to know the reason and if it is for a fratenity .....I would say you should had taken the hits and not risk your career. Therefore, Chris you can cast the first stone because you do not live in a glass house and never made a wrong choice in your life....perfect Chris .

    Well, there is no point of arguing over what should happen to this young man. He will face his jury and judge at the criminal hearing as well as the board of nursing soon. I would love to hear the outcome of this case. I bet you ten dollars that he will get probation in criminal court with community services. Would you like to take a guess?


    Chris have a great weekend,

    Buttons......

    PS You would be a great debator and especially against me. I think they would have to give us ativan to stop us.
  5. by   MamaTheNurse
    Quote from button2cute
    Hello, All

    PS You would be a great debator and especially against me. I think they would have to give us ativan to stop us.

    wow - you guys can really debate!!!! - ativan? heck no - I'd dose you with enough versed to keep you quiet while I prepared the diprivan drip!!
  6. by   button2cute
    Quote from MamaTheNurse
    wow - you guys can really debate!!!! - ativan? heck no - I'd dose you with enough versed to keep you quiet while I prepared the diprivan drip!!
    hello, all

    lol, You would hope that settle us. After we awaken, we will pick up where we left off. lol

    I respect Chris's thoughts and opinion and I look at his view point. I hope Chris can open his eyes wider to see the whole view instead of straight ahead. I am a holistic debator...lol and Chris is a debator of perfection... It is a lesson, we are learning from each other in a way.

    It is a shame for this young man to be in this situation and I hope he does come out with the understanding that his actions will effect his life.

    Have a great weekend,
    Buttons
  7. by   speedykicks
    I agree with Chris. Her/his posts were reasonable and well stated.

    What did the dude steal, anyway? That well help us figure out how worthy of grace he is. If it was an Ipod, I say throw away the key. If it was rare serum that would save the life of his mother, then I say give him his BSN right now.

    Ok seriously - I agree that it wasn't an error in judgment. An error in judgment is when you tell a friend something personal because you judge they will keep your confidences, and then they don't. If your friend is framing this mistake in that way, it tells me he isn't being very accountable for his actions. This dude decided to steal some stuff that he wanted and couldn't afford.

    Now I am all about being mindful of crimes of poverty and looking at said crimes in their appropriate socio-economic context. Yet - I am alarmed about how many "I did something illegal X years ago and now I am afraid I won't be able to be a nurse" threads there are on this board. I am not so naive as to think that people who commit crimes are bad or unable to be nurses, but I do see nursing as a profession where you can't really take a lot of chances with people - because patients are the ones who pay. I just started my clinical in a LTC facility and it really opened my eyes to how many opportunities there are for shady, lazy, unethical, illegal or abusive behavior - toward the residents or their property and physical space. You have to have people who are 100 percent above the board, and even then you have to be super careful because sexual predators usually are free of any criminal background. Crap - I just went full circle with my argument. You can't really count on our criminal justice system to deliver to us the "good" and the "bad" or the "safe" and the "unsafe".
  8. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    I do not believe it is an error in judgement, since this person made the choice to steal, and we all know stealing is illegal.
  9. by   button2cute
    Quote from speedykicks
    I agree with Chris. Her/his posts were reasonable and well stated.

    What did the dude steal, anyway? That well help us figure out how worthy of grace he is. If it was an Ipod, I say throw away the key. If it was rare serum that would save the life of his mother, then I say give him his BSN right now.

    Ok seriously - I agree that it wasn't an error in judgment. An error in judgment is when you tell a friend something personal because you judge they will keep your confidences, and then they don't. If your friend is framing this mistake in that way, it tells me he isn't being very accountable for his actions. This dude decided to steal some stuff that he wanted and couldn't afford.

    Now I am all about being mindful of crimes of poverty and looking at said crimes in their appropriate socio-economic context. Yet - I am alarmed about how many "I did something illegal X years ago and now I am afraid I won't be able to be a nurse" threads there are on this board. I am not so naive as to think that people who commit crimes are bad or unable to be nurses, but I do see nursing as a profession where you can't really take a lot of chances with people - because patients are the ones who pay. I just started my clinical in a LTC facility and it really opened my eyes to how many opportunities there are for shady, lazy, unethical, illegal or abusive behavior - toward the residents or their property and physical space. You have to have people who are 100 percent above the board, and even then you have to be super careful because sexual predators usually are free of any criminal background. Crap - I just went full circle with my argument. You can't really count on our criminal justice system to deliver to us the "good" and the "bad" or the "safe" and the "unsafe".
    Hmm, I do not think this is an issue of taking sides. It is an issue about a young gentleman that committed a crime and if it will effect his nursing career. The answer is yes it may have an impact and we do not know how much of an impact because we are not the board of nursing. We can assume that he will face consequences through the court system as well as the board of nursing in his state.

    Let me share this with you, you will see a whole a lot of thing that occur in the medical field. You will be face with issues that may cost your faith, morals, and ethics because it will come down to keeping a job or not. You can turn everyone in the whole medical arena and you will be standing alone. You must choose your battles correctly and be careful. There are so many questionable things that happen and it is easy for one to judge about another. However, do not ever be caught in a situation because you will not have support by your coworkers.

    Let me ask you this, have you ever did anything in your life that was wrong noncriminally as well as criminally? Did you pay your dues by those who punish you? Did they effect your career now? I know you are not perfect because you are human like Chris and myself.

    Everyone has some type of baggage in their closets and they do not want anyone to know. At least these people on these threads are being honest and face their punishment with open eyes. They had paid their dues and they can teach others about their lesson in life. Therefore, they are honest and maybe, people cannot face honesty these days.
  10. by   speedykicks
    Button - no offense but you need to work on your reading comprehension. You responded to several things that I never once asserted.
  11. by   Helen46
    I'M SO PLEASED SOMEONE SAID THIS.

    I don't think I have ever seen any evidence that 'crushing someone' has ever produced anything positive(thats not to say that I haven't felt like doing it to people)

    Having spent some years at Adeladie Law school, I learnt that crushed self esteem was at the base of why most people ended up in gaol, which then leads to the person to becoming more dysfunctional and thus unable to contribute socially.

    We don't know what someone else's experience is, so we are not in a position to judge. I personally would consider my position was to contribute to that person's wellbeing and thus everybody else's aswell. Apart from which, it may be us that is down one day and needing support.

    Important point to remember - THE THOUGHT IS WORSE THAN THE ACTUAL EVENT. Whatever happens you will be OK.

    Helen



    Quote from button2cute
    Hmm, I do not think this is an issue of taking sides. It is an issue about a young gentleman that committed a crime and if it will effect his nursing career. The answer is yes it may have an impact and we do not know how much of an impact because we are not the board of nursing. We can assume that he will face consequences through the court system as well as the board of nursing in his state.

    Let me share this with you, you will see a whole a lot of thing that occur in the medical field. You will be face with issues that may cost your faith, morals, and ethics because it will come down to keeping a job or not. You can turn everyone in the whole medical arena and you will be standing alone. You must choose your battles correctly and be careful. There are so many questionable things that happen and it is easy for one to judge about another. However, do not ever be caught in a situation because you will not have support by your coworkers.

    Let me ask you this, have you ever did anything in your life that was wrong noncriminally as well as criminally? Did you pay your dues by those who punish you? Did they effect your career now? I know you are not perfect because you are human like Chris and myself.

    Everyone has some type of baggage in their closets and they do not want anyone to know. At least these people on these threads are being honest and face their punishment with open eyes. They had paid their dues and they can teach others about their lesson in life. Therefore, they are honest and maybe, people cannot face honesty these days.
  12. by   Hodge
    I am shocked by everyone's vindictiveness. We do not know what circumstances this person was under. That is why we have courts, attorneys, juries etc. I suppose we should prosecute everyone in New Orleans because they "stole" food from stores to survive.

    "I am sorry, but even though you were starving and could not evacuate the city because you are poor (i.e. had no car - yes there are people in this country who are not middle class), you stole food - you have a character flaw".

    Come on..... Even though I am not a religous person, I will take my cue from the New Testament on this one - let he/she without sin cast the first stone (sure are a lot of stone throwers here...). Heck even King David in the Old Testament had one of his most loyal generals killed (Uriah I beleive his name was) because David had slept with his wife and she got knocked up. If the law of the day had been applied to him, he should have been killed - simple. But he was not because he was "a man after God's own heart". I guess David must have had some extenuating circumstances......

    We live in a country were justice has never been applied eqaully but, thankfully, we still have some judges on the court who look at the circumstance. We all make mistakes, the important thing is that we learn from them, not be crushed by them. To imply that this person, who stole, does not have the character to be a nurse because of this one incident is ridiculous.




    Stand up, Keep fighting - Senator Paul Wellstone
    Last edit by Hodge on Oct 8, '05
  13. by   truern
    Thankfully this decision isn't up to us

    For what it's worth, I happen to believe that most people *know* what's at stake when they decide to break the law...especially when they want to be a nurse.

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