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| No. 10 | 
Aug 16, 2008, 09:29 PM
 Re: Nursing School Graduation Percentages Originally Posted by tbanurse  It seems to me that it would be more important to know the NCLEX pass rate rather than the attrition rate. If a school bragged that they had 100% graduation rate but only a 60% NCLEX pass, I would not consider that a good program. If, on the other hand, they had a 60% attrition rate but a 100% NCLEX pass, that would tell me that at least they are not "dummying down" the curriculum to get students to graduate. Sure, it may be a very difficult program to complete, but isn't that what we want from our future nurses? The ability to critically think through a problem and have the knowledge base to carry out into the real world? My bridge program started with 30 but only 19 graduated. Still waiting on everyone to take the boards, but so far we have had only one person fail (I believe 11-12 have tested so far). I would put more weight on the NCLEX, but that's just me!
NCLEX pass rates are important, but only part of the story. Most state Boards of Nursing will put education programs on probation if their pass rates fall below 80%, but unless schools provide the information, prospective students may have no way to know the graduation rate of their program. What about schools that accept students who are not qualified, take their tuition money for a few semesters, then flunk them out? Or worse yet, award passing grades, but with-hold degrees and NCLEX eligibility of students based upon an irrelevant exit exam intended to inflate their NCLEX pass rates?
IMO, the most valuable bit of information would be the NCLEX pass rate based upon the number of students who initially enrolled in the program. For example, 100 students start, 40 drop or flunk out, then 20 of the remaining students fail NCLEX. That would make a pass rate of 66% among the students who took NCLEX, but only 40% of the initial classmates actually became RNs. That's a big difference in school performance.
 | | Advertisement Sponsored Links | | | | No. 12 |
Aug 16, 2008, 09:42 PM
Re: Nursing School Graduation Percentages
Unfortunately it appears that within the last couple of classes, the NCLEX pass rate has also suffered. I believe that is another reason why they are changing the requirements both to get into the program and to stay in. My first semester I had a 91 average, bordering on A/B, this semester it'll be a firm B if I can stay the same and to be honest, I'll be happy with that (although I will of course work hard to get an A).
| | No. 14 |
Aug 17, 2008, 05:06 AM
Re: Nursing School Graduation Percentages Originally Posted by Jolie I'm not sure what the overall average attrition rate is among RN programs in the U.S. Not to flame anyone, but I suspect that it is probably higher among community colleges for 2 reasons: 1.) Most offer selection by lottery to students who have completed certain preprequisites and maintained a minimum GPA. Admission does not necessarily go to those with the best academic performance or relevant experience. 2.) Many community college programs cater to non-traditional students, who may have more difficulty maintaining home, work and school than your average 19-year old college student with few outside responsibilities. I would guess that private colleges probably have the lowest attrition rate, simply because they are highly motivated to hold onto students who are paying tens of thousands of dollars in tuition every year.
I do understand the theory behind this and would tend to agree. However, maybe my school is just different. My Community College graduates 80% of the original class (found out by talking with students only) and enjoys a 98% pass rate in 2007 NCLEX (haven't found 2008 yet). Whereas the private university 2 miles away graduates a very small percentage and has actually been on probation 2x because of the lack of passing NCLEX and graduations.
This university basically takes anyone into their program that can afford to pay the 15,000 a semester fee. They are very aggressive in recruiting and hold up many smoke screens when it comes to actual scholarships/aid. The community college has very difficult requirements and a "formula" they use in order to make their application selections, so that acceptance into the program is based on merit.
Another point which I have learned from personal experience, while the students attending a community college may be non-traditional students with families and jobs, they are also the ones more committed to an education. Often it is their second time around and they are going to do whatever it takes to get it done. Whereas the 19 yr old who's mommy and daddy are paying for them to go to a university is more likely to major in beer and parties.
So I guess the ball rolls both ways  | | No. 15 |
Aug 17, 2008, 10:45 AM
Re: Nursing School Graduation Percentages Originally Posted by Jolie <snip>
I'm not sure what the overall average attrition rate is among RN programs in the U.S. Not to flame anyone, but I suspect that it is probably higher among community colleges for 2 reasons: 1.) Most offer selection by lottery to students who have completed certain preprequisites and maintained a minimum GPA. Admission does not necessarily go to those with the best academic performance or relevant experience. 2.) Many community college programs cater to non-traditional students, who may have more difficulty maintaining home, work and school than your average 19-year old college student with few outside responsibilities. I would guess that private colleges probably have the lowest attrition rate, simply because they are highly motivated to hold onto students who are paying tens of thousands of dollars in tuition every year.
<snip>
Maybe other places are different, but here in Oregon, Community Colleges (with some few exceptions) have competitive admissions, and are very difficult to get into.
Additionally non-traditional students tend to have higher GPA's than their younger colleagues. My personal hypothesis as to why non-traditional folks tend to have higher grades is that not only do they have more to lose if they don't succeed, but they aren't dealing with the--living away from home for the first time/demanding social life----kinds of drama.
Peace,
CuriousMe
| | No. 16 |
Aug 17, 2008, 11:36 AM
Re: Nursing School Graduation Percentages
The graduation/attrition rate is important because it tells me how SUPPORTIVE the faculty and school are of the students they admit. And it also tells me if the school just admits a bunch of people to grab some quick tuition from them and fail them, or if they carefully choose who they admit and then work with those students to maximize the students' success.
I agree with some of the other posters that nursing schools have been doing a fine job of protecting their precious 95% NCLEX pass rates. But the students who fail out or who are forced out for various reasons become the "collateral damage" in that perfect NCLEX pass rate quest. I am NOT saying unqualified students should be admitted. I'd rather know that a school has very high standards for admission AND that they support the students they DO admit.
| | No. 17 |
Aug 17, 2008, 10:38 PM
Re: Nursing School Graduation Percentages Originally Posted by AtomicWoman The graduation/attrition rate is important because it tells me how SUPPORTIVE the faculty and school are of the students they admit. And it also tells me if the school just admits a bunch of people to grab some quick tuition from them and fail them, or if they carefully choose who they admit and then work with those students to maximize the students' success.
Actually, I do have to say that even though my class had a high attrition rate (15/43 withdrew or didn't pass), it wasn't lack of support from the school. I think the school realized that they needed to raise their entrance requirements in the prereqs because as much as you wish differently, not everyone that takes A&P I/II and gets the minimum of a C should be a nurse. If they are having that difficult a time in the prereqs, the nursing program is really difficult.
| | No. 18 |
Aug 17, 2008, 11:19 PM
Updated
Aug 17, 2008 at 11:31 PM by *LadyJane*
Re: Nursing School Graduation Percentages
To the original poster:
Read and reread what Jolie posted (at the top of this page.)
She is quite correct about graduation rates versus NCLEX pass rates. When selecting a college to attend for your nursing education, find out if your graduation is only allowed if you pass the HESI test. The HESI test is a test that many nursing schools use as a predictive test that lets them know if you will pass NCLEX or not. You must score a certain point score (it varies from school to school), and if you don't pass, they will not allow you to graduate from the program. Some schools have not allowed the majority of the class to graduate, and those students are totally out of luck. They studied, they paid their money, they spent their time, they gave up other opportunities, and what do they have? NOTHING to show for their efforts.
You might want to read this thread which is highly instructive. See: http://allnurses.com/forums/f17/hesi...st-207283.html
Also, Curious me is quite correct about community colleges in Oregon. They are quite competitive. High gpa's and completion of most all of the non-nursing classes (in addition to the prerequisites) prior to beginning the nursing classes are pretty much the rule. Very few people here don't pass HESI, but the class is a small one to begin with (well under 50 students).
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