Nurses see us coming for clinical and RUN away from us. Irritating! - Page 4

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  1. Apr 24, '12 by
    Quote from nursesunflower

    1. They are practicing under my license, so please be aware of that.
    This is a complete misnomer. Nursing students do not practice under your license. They do not practice under their instructors license. They practice under the license of the school and the authority given to the school by the Board to teach nursing students. Only if you sign to a task completed by as a student as if you yourself performed it are you liable and btw you shouldn't do this. The student should sign for anything performed by the student cosigned by their instructor (or nurse if appropriate)

    I was fortunate to have both my schools PhD prepared DON as my clinical instructor and he always clarified this for the nurses since they were quick to use the above as an excuse for brushing us off. At least with my school there was a financial arrangement between the school and the hospital (in the form of donation in exchange for access to clinicals') so our DON didn't look upon that too favorably.

    Oh and here's a study about this whole topic just because I happened to be reading it before I saw this thread

    http://www.nova.edu/ssss/QR/QR14-2/hathorn.pdf

    Personally I think the best solution would be to have clinical instructors that were formally associated with the hospital. The instructor could have a small handful of students take on a load of patients and then delegate them out to her students thus cutting out the middleman of the staff nurse.
    Last edit by tothepointeLVN on Apr 24, '12
  2. Apr 24, '12 by
    Quote from thawk28
    I swear every week when we go to our floor for clinicals the nurses pratically run away from us. The charge nurse on the floor tell us to just get with someone and last week every nurse I went to said they didn't want a student. I ran out of people to ask and I went in the breakroom and sat down until finally a nurse who doesn't like students took me. It was horrible. I watched the clock all day. To me this is the worst part of nursing school to me.Its as if no one remembers when they were in nursing school and the way nurses either made you feel welcomed or like crap. Last semester the charge nurses had us assigned and had reports printed for us. It was great but this semester.. negative. 1 more semester after this, Cant wait to be done!!!!
    Please know that not all nurses are like that. I've got nearly forty years of nursing completed, and I love working with nursing students. Nursing is an honorable profession, and I want to help students know they have chosen wisely.
    CrazierThanYou and MeliSNstudent like this.
  3. Apr 24, '12 by
    This is great! I have been interested in research on this phenomenon! Thank you! I will be sharing this with my classmates.
  4. Apr 24, '12 by
    Quote from elkpark
    In my nursing program, back in the Dark Ages, and in the programs I've taught in over the years as faculty, the students have been supervised by the school's clinical instructor; the students worked alongside the staff nurses, and the staff nurses were welcome to become involved as much as they wanted to, but nobody expected them to take full responsibility for one or more students. The trend I have seen more and more in recent years is for a clinical instructor to drop off a group of students on a floor and the staff nurses are expected to provide all, or nearly all, of the clinical instruction/supervision for the students. Keep in mind (students), that nobody asked any of these nurses whether they wanted to do this, they get no additional compensation for it, having students typically slows them down getting their work done during the day (despite many students' belief that they somehow make things easier or quicker for the staff nurses), it adds significantly to their stress level for the day, and, frankly, if they wanted to be teaching students, they would have gotten a teaching job instead of their current job.

    It's also not fair or helpful for the students; they end up feeling demoralized, as the OP notes, by the apparent lack of interest and willingness on the part of the staff nurses (which I agree makes no sense at all if you don't understand "the big picture" here, as most students don't), and they are not getting a consistently high (or at least adequate) level of instruction/supervision.

    I see this as a significant deterioration in the caliber/quality of nursing education in general; IMO, it's unfair to the students, it's unfair to the staff nurses, and it's a bad idea all around. If I were a student paying tuition to attend a nursing program, I would find this approach completely unacceptable. I'm amazed that schools find it acceptable to just take their chances on what kind of instruction and supervision their students are getting in clinical, but it seems like many programs and instructors just want to take the easiest route these days.
    I'm sure all that is true, but wouldn't it be fair to say that many of today's nurses, including those who are so ugly to students, were those self-same students once upon a not so long ago time?

    I might be wrong, but personally, I don't think I've caused my nurses any of the strife you describe above. I got report from them, reported anything important to them, and gave report at the end of my clinical day. The end. The rest of the day, I was providing care for my patients, not getting underfoot of the nurse.
  5. Apr 24, '12 by
    I haven't experienced this in my clinical rotations because we get assigned our patients prior to arrival, which causes us to naturally fall under whichever nurse has that patient for the day--whether they want us or not. However, the attitudes of some RNs we have to work with can sometimes be sickening.

    I don't see why taking students under your wing is so hard to do let alone annoying UNLESS you aren't competent enough nor confident in yourself as an RN. I wouldn't mind it! But just to be optimistic, I stay prepared and ready to learn regardless.

    Kill 'em with kindness and preparedness lol.
  6. Apr 24, '12 by
    It's not a great experience, but I want you to fast forward 2 years:

    You're working your 4th 12 hour shift in a row because you're running short handed. You've got a fresh MI on a heparin drip, an evolving CVA that wants to crawl out of bed and go home (but they can't use the L side, so they'll fall and the bed alarm's going off every 2 minutes), two people who are in with the flu (so you are in and out of droplet precautions) and a fresh post op that the OR says, "you can react them, can't you?" One of the flu patient's has a family who is calling you every 30 seconds for it being too hot, too cold, to much air coming out of the vent, not enough air coming out of the vent, turn her right, turn her left (patient can walk, talk and turn herself). You've got to complete some computer training TODAY that management just realized everyone was supposed to have completed 6 months ago. You get told you're getting a 6th admission, one of the frequent flyers who comes in the DTs about every 3 weeks. Who also has a seizure disorder, has Hep-C and likes to spit at people who don't keep him stoned enough to his liking (you can't give someone as much narcotic as he wants).

    Now, imagine that into the middle of this, you get told, "we've got students." 1st year? 2 weeks from graduation? The student that nearly killed a patient last week, or the one that's been a CNA/LPN and knows what's going on? Or the CNA/LPN who thinks they knew everything and you wonder how they still have a job where ever it is they work? They want you to paint a rosy picture of nursing, and all you're doing is trying to figure out how you're going to manage heparin drips, the new onset chest pain in your MI patient, your DT patient stating he's going to walk out if you don't bring him dilaudid he can't have because he's started puking blood and his BP is 70/30, the flu family stating they're going to complain to the house supervisor that you're taking to long to answer their call bells and they've already told you they don't want a student, a CNA or a LPN providing care, they want what they "paid for."

    I've had that day, that exact patient load. And then the students came in and weren't prepared, didn't know Diovan from Diprivan, and then complained when we weren't "welcoming" when all they did was stand in a huddle at the end of the hall and run from the GI bleed where we really could have used help. There's two sides to every situation. Did you ask anyone "what can I do to help?" rather than just go sit down somewhere?
    Nurse Leigh, elkpark, and WeepingAngel like this.
  7. Apr 24, '12 by
    Quote from thawk28
    Its as if no one remembers when they were in nursing school and the way nurses either made you feel welcomed or like crap. Last semester the charge nurses had us assigned and had reports printed for us. It was great but this semester.. negative. 1 more semester after this, Cant wait to be done!!!!
    Hmmm, at our facility, precepting is all voluntary. But once you sign up, you have signed up, and you have a student assigned to you. Period. If you don't like it, you don't sign up again.

    Yet I remember as school was winding down and I was the one being trained, the NOC RNs from the various floors were begging for info on how be a preceptor. When they saw my preceptor bring me along when transferring pts to the floor (I was and am in the ED), they wanted to know where they could get the same help. Sure, they have to take the time to teach you, and pull meds with you, but geez, doing it with someone, to me, is always better than doing it alone.

    So yeah, when you are the preceptor in the future, remember this time, and do it right. You will feel great when you go home.
  8. Apr 24, '12 by
    The only reaction you can control is your own. So it is up to you what you make of your clinical time. While is it unfortunate that nurses "forget they were nursing students" it is unrealistic to expect nurses to always be happy to take on the responsibility of a student as it is at it's most basic one more task in a long list of tasks. I think expecting the floor nurse to oversee a student is a change in practice. Our clinical instructor would basically take a patient load and watch over all the students. Now they aren't always on the floor and as such not available to answer questions and oversee their own students. You are responsible for your own education. Showing some initiative is a good start, although there should be some lack of choice in how assignments are made so students have access to patients and this is your instructors responsibility. Tossing the responsibility off onto the charge nurse is likely why this was not done successfully and should be addressed within your program. You pay for this education, hold them accountable. You can't blame anyone else for your experience, or lack there of.
  9. Apr 25, '12 by
    In my own program and from others in different one's I've talked with, the instructor has all the responsibility for pulling meds and supervising the students at all times. I don't think it is the norm to shove a student with an unsuspecting nurse and expect them to teach the student. That to me says it is a poorly designed program, bad for students and nurses alike.
    Last edit by coco.nut on Apr 25, '12 : Reason: grammar
  10. Apr 25, '12 by
    Thats good to know, its just what I have always been told.