New Diversity Criteria for Admission...what to make of that? - page 8

OK all, I just got a letter from my school last night that states they are instituting a new criteria of "diversity" for admission to all programs. I am applying for ADN in August for the January... Read More

  1. by   alexillytom
    Quote from carolinapooh
    Of course I can compare - because "exceptions" - your word, not mine - prove that this country is not completely comprised of wanton racists.

    I wouldn't call "isms" a "system" of "checks and balances".

    Have you ever been told that your husband has not been promoted because of his race, or is it an assumption?
    You and I are not going to get into a debate about MY experiences. For every Kenyan doctor you can show me, I can show you a few very deserving minorities who were shut out. Like Marie_LPN said, it must be regional. I have never said the country is completely compromised by wanton racists. Nor did I say "isms" are checks and balances. I said the SYSTEMS were put into place as checks and balances to combat the "isms". AGAIN, I don't cry wolf. Accusing someone of being racist and making decisions based on race is not something I would do unless I knew it to be true. Not only is it hurtful to be a victim of racism but it hurts to be labeled one if it's not true. The person in my husband's situation is what he is. By the way, yes my husband was told he wasn't going to be chosen because of his race and age. However, the person in charge didn't tell him, a few of his cronies did. When the selection was made, his superior felt the need to come back and make a dig about his being passed over. Can't take that to court can he? That would be considered hearsay.
  2. by   Plagueis
    While I am still don't like the idea of AA in admissions, I think it's odd that people assume that because of AA, African Americans have more advantages than whites in college admissions. I don't know about that. Whites, and white males in particular, have had a tremendous advantage in college admissions for centuries. Many colleges in the past did not admit blacks, so blacks don't have the legacy advantage (grandparents and parents who went to Yale, for instance) that whites have (and colleges have admitted they have preferences for legacies). Also, money issues play a role in college admissions, and if black families earn less than whites, then they may be less likely to consider a college education. (I really believe that we have get rid of the myth that families need to have the full four years of college tuition in their bank accounts at the end of high school in order for them to send their kids to college.) Also, even with AA, most elite colleges are still mostly white. According to the annual college guides published by some magazines, blacks only make up between 6 to 9 percent of the student body at schools, such as the Ivy Leagues, and other elite schools. This doesn't seem like that blacks are doing better than whites in college admissions to me.
  3. by   Lambert5883
    Quote from Marie_LPN
    I don't.



    When was the last time you heard of any Caucasian-specific scholarships?

    I'm not EVEN thinking that minorities are up to their ear in financial aid of any kind, but i think that any aid based on race, ethniocity, gender, is ridiculous and far from equal.
    Seek and you shall find. To suggest that scholarships have not been, or are not, available to non-minorities truly highlights how uninformed you are.

    I have no problem with the merit of your argument that AA is wrong because it inherently discriminates against some groups and, potentially, causes friction amongst various groups. I think we all can agree on this.

    But if your argument is to suggest that all scholastically-based aid is limited only to minorities (in this unmistaken case, African Americans), I would ask that you search the subject so that perhaps you won't be as inclined to stereotype matters further.

    You might find that different groups have been the recipients of aid as well, such as: Puerto Ricans, Greeks, Italians, and Swedes, just to name a few.
  4. by   Lambert5883
    Quote from Marie_LPN
    I think it's area specific. It may not be a problem everywhere, but here, it's gotten beyond ridiculous.
    How so? Give some examples.
  5. by   Lambert5883
    Quote from carolinapooh
    Excuse me - perhaps I'm misunderstanding you - but what about my post was nasty, and where did I say you cried wolf? Not everything that happens to someone has to do with race, which was what I was saying.

    Why get mean about it?

    Since you have no idea what ethnicity I may be, I'd be careful about your own assumptions here as well.
    Reread her post. She was referring to the "nasty" aspects of people's attitudes as applied and experienced in her immediate situation. It was not directed towards you.
  6. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from Lambert5883
    How so? Give some examples.
    Programs in this area that i live in that are JUST for one minority. It doesn't matter what they are or who they're for, the point is, it's excluding others, and how that's not discriminating is beyond me.
  7. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    To suggest that scholarships have not been, or are not, available to non-minorities truly highlights how uninformed you are.
    I am quite informed, thank you.

    I question all sides. I try and look at things from all points of view before forming my own opinion or belief.

    I will not be replying to you anymore.
  8. by   Lambert5883
    Quote from carolinapooh
    Historically, yes.

    Now - I'm not so sure.

    If this country is so racially biased, how do you explain the Kenyan and African doctors I've met that hold high faculty positions at UNC? Why do immigrants literally in some cases DIE to come here? (These are rhetorical questions - please take it as such.)
    This is an excerpt from a book I am reading called, "The End of Racism." It describes incidences that have happened that have led some to claim "racial bias":

    (I do not subscribe to many of the thoughts brought forth by this author because, in turn, some of his analysis are ill-thought-out in nature. But he does make some interesting points.)

    - Rodney King was excessivlely and sadistically beaten by LA policemen.

    - Blacks were harassed, brutilized, and killed in Bensonhurst and Howard
    Beach.

    - Each year Skinheads and white supremacist groups threaten and harm
    African Americans.

    - Susan Smith blamed a black man for kidnapping her two children and later
    confessed to drowning them herself.

    - Black families in certain parts of the country have witnessed crosses
    burning on their front lawns.

    My own additions:

    - A man in Denver was shot and killed while waiting at a bus stop because
    he was black.

    - A man in Texas was dragged to his death because he was black.

    My point being that one man's justice is another man's injustice.
  9. by   Lambert5883
    Quote from Marie_LPN
    I am quite informed, thank you.

    I question all sides. I try and look at things from all points of view before forming my own opinion or belief.

    I will not be replying to you anymore.
    Please accept my apologies if I've offended you. These type of settings lend themselves to situations in whch people act and behave in a manner in which they otherwise would not.
    Last edit by Lambert5883 on Feb 1, '06
  10. by   Ayvah
    Quote from Tommybabe
    Also, even with AA, most elite colleges are still mostly white. According to the annual college guides published by some magazines, blacks only make up between 6 to 9 percent of the student body at schools, such as the Ivy Leagues, and other elite schools. This doesn't seem like that blacks are doing better than whites in college admissions to me.
    While this percentage may seem low, when you consider that blacks make up only 12-13% of this country, that percentage on the student board doesn't seem too bad.

    source: http://censtats.census.gov/data/US/01000.pdf
  11. by   lilmama007
    Quote from jenrninmi
    Actually, that is not true at all. My husband was turned down for flight school back in 94 and 95 even though his packet was absolutely perfect! He had extremely high scores, but other people did get in because of their race even though they had much lower scores. These were people dh worked with and when they compared scores they realized that even though the minoritis had lower scores they got in when my husband didn't. The other guys went to the same boards at the same time as my husband. The other guys felt embarrased and bad for my husband because they knew my husband was actually more qualified, but, what can you do? My husband wanted to be an apache pilot his whole life, now when the military really needs more pilots, my husband is too old to even go to the boards anymore. Sad.
    That is a lie! Sweetie, I am in the U. S. Marine Corps and even before joining the armed forces you must take a test. His packet may have seemed perfect to you and him but not perfect to those board members. They put you in your occupational specialty based upon your ASVAB score and Officer selection scores. Not anyone can go to flight school there's a lot of issues that surround flight. You must have clearance, the right scores, be of a certain rank, no office hours and everything else. Actually when I was in school for aircraft mechanic, so many of the "perfect score/packet" guys failed out of school because of failing 3 tests, dropping screwdrivers and so on. I know you're like "dropping screwdrivers?" yes if you drop a screwdriver, you're sent for a urinalysis and everthing else. My point is you can't just have the perfect packet you must be the right candidate all around. And also if you guys knew he wasn't accepted for that reason why didn't he go see the Equal Opportunity Rep? I've had to see them twice and believe me, they get down to the nitty gritty. They will come back with the right results. If he didn't see the EO that's his fault. Now maybe you and your husband would like to believe that he wasn't accepted for that reason because maybe that's the only thing that's gives you guys comfort but truth is he just wasn't cut out for the job and that's what the board members saw. I'm not trying to be mean, that's not my intentions I just don't like people saying untrue things about my Armed Forces. I take my service to this country very seriously.
  12. by   lilmama007
    Quote from SusanNC
    Myreign1, Not sure where you are getting your information. I'm a white woman and a Veteran. Every advancement test I took in the Navy had 2 passing scores - 1 for minorities and one for the rest of us - white females were NOT considered minorities and I know that for a fact - it was a totally unfair process. My first shot at the E-5 Exam I had to make a 165 - I got a 163 and wasn't advanced. A minority co-worker got a 140 and was advanced in rate - is this fair to you? In the military being advanced in Rate is the same as a "salary promotion" in the civilian world - it's more $$ each month and trust me, we didn't make much so any extra money was a BIG Deal. It's absolutely unfair for someone to get a lesser score on an exam and be advanced into a higher pay rank because they are considered a "minority" than someone who studied more and scored higher than you - that's crazy.
    That's why I love the Marine Corps, we don't go by tests, it's straight Rifle Score, Physical Fitness score, Education (off-duty and Military), leadership skills, recruiting points and how long you've been doing what you do. Can't go wrong there, can't discriminate like that. I really don't believe The Navy promotes based on race, if so, you should say something about it. If not, you're only hurting yourself.
  13. by   smk1
    Quote from Marie_LPN
    I don't.


    When was the last time you heard of any Caucasian-specific scholarships?

    I'm not EVEN thinking that minorities are up to their ear in financial aid of any kind, but i think that any aid based on race, ethniocity, gender, is ridiculous and far from equal.
    You have to look at the history. There are many scholarships for those whose parents were of a certain occupation, or went to a certain school, were part of a certain club or organziation. Many of these Jobs, clubs and organizations didn't allow people of color within their ranks either formally or informally. These are essentially "caucasian-specific" simply because by virtue of past discriminatory actions, people of color weren't in a postion to set their kids up for the scholarship now. Sort of like the black history month thing. In general you don't need a white history month because it is taught all year long anyway. Noone is saying it is "fair", but then all of the other disadvantages that racial minorities are subjected to in this country are fair either, neither is it fair for the kid whose dad went to Stanford to get in with a "C" avergage over the kid with the 4.0 without the benefit of legacy admissions. Whenever people get really upset over the "minimal" at best affects of AA, but don't mention or seem to care about the other unfair college admissions practices, I do have to wonder why...

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