I'm not going to lie...

Nursing Students General Students

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Some people genuinely annoy me on here, I'm ALL for furthering education but dreading those of us who choose to start with our ADN is complete disrespect.

Had my mother been healthier (she has RA and her pain is becoming unbearable.... she's a massage therapist ... her hands are her money makers) I would have gone the BSN route.

There's nothing more that I want than to retire my poor old mom.

Going the BSN route would have meant

a) A further drive... lets just say our vehicles SUCK! My community college is even walking distance .. need be!!!

b) I would have had to pay 25K for the BSN... my ADN costs 5K.

c) Graduating later...I need to retire my mom... NOW ... she's 57 ... has HTN ... she's already had 2 hypertensive crises. Her RA puts her in awful pain

I appreciate higher education. I know I will bridge for my BSN and I plan to obtain my MSN by age 24.

I'm currently 20 and in my second semester.

side note: I hope that after I obtain my BSN THEN I will be qualified worthy of obtaining a job in the ICU. I will apply everywhere either way....

what do I have to lose? My friend graduated with her ADN and received a position as a NICU nurse... as a new grad!

I'm glad to say that everywhere I go the nurses truly enjoy us... and tell as graduates from our college make some good nurses.

For a community college we've done pretty well. Recently spent millions on a simulation lab... new lecture rooms... ect. I personally am learning a lot here and he best part is that if I graduate with a 3.0 I AUTOMATICALLY am accepted into UTMB upon applying because my college has a deal with them.

I'm not entirely sure where you live but there is no way that what I am learning places me in a position to be a nurses assistant (not knocking on CNA).

Ultimately the BSN is 4-5yrs depending on prereqs

the ADN is 3-3yrs depending on prereqs

I cannot possibly conceive how it takes 3 years of education to be able to sit to be a nursing assistant...?

My program includes all the general classes:

Anatomy Physiology I & II

Microbiology

Pathophysiology

College Algebra

English Compition I & II

Psychology Intro

Psychology Growth and Development

Philosophy/Ethics

Then the nursing classes:

Foundations, Intermediate nursing skills, Intro to clinical, Health assessment, Medical surgical I, Medical surgical II, Medical surgical III, Pharmacology part I, Pharmacology part II, OB, Pediatrics, Psych, Management. We get no breaks, all the way through summer (ICU/ER rotation during the summer).

The crucial difference between ADN and BSN is that BSN receives more humanity classes, research classes, and cultural competency classes ... and health assessment ... WHICH now ALL ADNs are also obliged to take as part of their program due to the TBON. I'm not sure about other state-BONs

ADN and BSN nurses have the same scope of practice.. they both sit to become Registered Nurses.

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Like I said ... It is 3 years for ADN

4 for BSN

the difference is a cultural/managerial aspect.

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I don't believe I actually said, and I did not mean it to come off such way. My point was geared towards the degrading of the ADN. I completely believe obtaining your BSN and MSN is good... I plan to do that ... why would I oppose it?

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*Facepalm*

I forgot to put "quote" -____-

but I hope that is a wealthy enough response to everyone... I didn't expect to get so many replies ... yikes ... and I really don't have time to argue for obvious reasons ...

SO I'll wrap up with this.

I appreciate higher education. I do not appreciate those who have obtained higher degrees degrading those who have to work their way up... I do appreciate when those with higher degrees are ALL for those higher degrees and advocate for obtaining them... but this whole "my degree is better than yours" is annoying.

how about we help each other climb up? continue to be the backbone of healthcare for years to come?

Once again, my agitation wasn't directed at people who advocate for BSN or MSN degrees.

Okay (=

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Back to the original poster, I admire you for wanting to help your mom out, what a great young person!! I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors, you will be fine starting out as an adn, you just may have to be more persistent in trying to find a job.

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Specializes in Forensic Psych.
i apologize if i offended any ADN RN i didn't mean to i was just ignorant of the fact that one could go to college for 2 years and qualify to sit the same exam that BSN students take. And then be granted the same scope of practice with similar compensation. that doesn't happen in my country, an RN equates to someone who went to a university for 4 years period, 2 years of education equates to a "nursing assistant" who went to a community college. This is simply maintaining a high standard of a profession.[/quote']

Nursing has traditionally been seen as a vocational path. Meaning in order to do the job effectively all that's needed is job-specific training. You could studying at a hospital and get a diploma and sit for the boards. Anything beyond that (2 or 4 years at a college) was just a bonus. Careers like radiology technicians, respiratory therapists, physician's assistants, and physical therapy assistant were treating similarly.

Thanks to that, we have multiple entries to the same job. All get the same basic nursing training.

I do think now that nurses are expected to act more independently in more high-liability ways, perhaps a more broad education is warranted.

I listen to the radio every morning on my way to school. Every morning I hear commercials. And at least 2 of those commercials are advertising nursing programs. Come make a lot of money! Start right away! Wear scrubs to work!

I don't think for one second the multiple entry point situation is the key to raising up the profession. The profession doesn't even respect itself. When I can get a bachelor's degree in nursing from Devry, the degree has gone the way of the business degree. Nothing fancy.

When the BONs decide to unite and stop allowing unaccredited programs to take the NCLEX and practice...when they control the number of grads being put into the field to keep demand high...when there's some cohesion, then I'll get behind the single entry point.

But for now I think it's the least of our professionalism worries.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
. I completely believe obtaining your BSN and MSN is good... I plan to do that ... why would I oppose it?

Just playing a bit of devil's advocate here but if you believe in nurses obtaining higher education I assume you feel that it is valuable to their practice, so, if you we're sick and needed a nurse who you had never met, would you want one with an ADN, BSN, or MSN/DNP?

Nurses have incredible responsibility for other people's lives. It it really appropriate that we let them take that responsibility with less education because it is cheaper/faster/easier?

I would never disrespect a nurse with and ADN; I would love for them to continue on in education but that's their choice. I do advocate for a bachelor entrance to practice though.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.

I don't think for one second the multiple entry point situation is the key to raising up the profession. The profession doesn't even respect itself.

But for now I think it's the least of our professionalism worries.

How long have you been working in nursing? I would think by your first few years of practice you would have experienced how other healthcare providers (and even patients) struggle to respect the education of nurses because it is so varied.

I think most nurses highly respect the profession.

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Specializes in Forensic Psych.

How long have you been working in nursing? I would think by your first few years of practice you would have experienced how other healthcare providers (and even patients) struggle to respect the education of nurses because it is so varied.

I think most nurses highly respect the profession.

I don't dispute that buy point is that the list of changes that need to be made to the educational system is not a Hirt one, I don't think BSN-only even ranks at the top. We don't just need bachelor's degrees. We need VALUABLE bachelor's degrees, or how can we really expect people to invest more of themselves to get it?

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I don't dispute that buy point is that the list of changes that need to be made to the educational system is not a Hirt one, I don't think BSN-only even ranks at the top. We don't just need bachelor's degrees. We need VALUABLE bachelor's degrees, or how can we really expect people to invest more of themselves to get it?
I agree. If you have the money, it's extremely easy to get a BSN at all these for profit online schools. If we changed the entry point to BSN I don't think it would do much considering there's all these ads saying "come get your BSN in only 36 months! Do half online! Wear scrubs to work!" How does this promote professionalism anymore than a multiple point entry into practice? You don't see ads like this for medical school, PT school, dental school, etc. If we want the entry point to be BSN only, the quality of all BSN programs needs to be improved as well. The problem isn't a multiple point entry. The problem is all these for profit online schools. This is what makes many people I know think less of the educational standards of nursing.
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Just playing a bit of devil's advocate here but if you believe in nurses obtaining higher education I assume you feel that it is valuable to their practice, so, if you we're sick and needed a nurse who you had never met, would you want one with an ADN, BSN, or MSN/DNP?Nurses have incredible responsibility for other people's lives. It it really appropriate that we let them take that responsibility with less education because it is cheaper/faster/easier?I would never disrespect a nurse with and ADN; I would love for them to continue on in education but that's their choice. I do advocate for a bachelor entrance to practice though.
If I was sick I wouldn't care what degree my nurse had as long as they were a competent nurse, and at my hospital most nurses are ADNs and they give great patient care. I can think off the top of my head which nurse at work I'd want taking care of me, and guess what? She has an ADN! But she's smart, knowledgable, catches things very quickly, is thorough in her assessments and a very hard worker. I've seen great ADN nurses, bad BSN nurses and vice versa. Having an MSN doesn't automatically make you more competent. And btw, I don't know any MSN/DNPs who are still at the bedside. At least not on a general med/surg floor. Where I work nurses are respected by doctors, pharmacists, respiratory, etc. and they are highly respected by patients.
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How long have you been working in nursing? I would think by your first few years of practice you would have experienced how other healthcare providers (and even patients) struggle to respect the education of nurses because it is so varied.I think most nurses highly respect the profession.
I'm not an RN, but I work on a med/surg floor as a CNA and our nurses are highly respected by patients, doctors, pharmacists, etc. they respect the local ADN program and know that it is a hard program. Not all RNs everywhere are disrespected by other co workers.
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