HIPAA violation or not..?

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There is a huge ordeal in my clinical group. I have managed to stay out of it (thankfully I wasn't there when it happened and haven't been forced into getting involved), but was wondering what you guys thought about this.

The week before last in clinical, one of the students went to the nurses desk, called a friend, and told them that their step-mother was in the hospital with pneumonia and it looked pretty bad. The student did this in front of 2 students, a nurse (or more?), a doctor, and the unit secretary.

She was turned in for violating HIPAA and was told by the hospital that she was not welcome back. Our clinical instructor told her to go home. She was later notified by the department that she had been dropped from the program.

She appealed, of course, and continued to attend class.

Her clinical review was last Thursday and this morning she was in class for our test... so I guess she is still in..

what are your thoughts on this?

Specializes in Nephrology, Cardiology, ER, ICU.

HIPAA is very real and very strict: unless the pt has given consent or is incompacitated and/or has a power of attorney, we are not to provide info to ANYONE. This goes for other healthcare providers who are not directly providing care the patient.

Specializes in OB, ortho/neuro, home care, office.

No a dr can't tell visitors about a patients condition without their specific permission to do so. Now - if the visitors are in the room when the doctor is delivering the news, then it would be prudent for him to ask them to leave, because it would NOT be appropriate for him to ask the patient for their permission with various people in the room. Same with a nurse.

Basically I would start a confidential conversation like this

'Mrs. B I have the results of your test. But since you have company, I can come back later or would you like me to discuss it privately?' It is the patients responsibility to say 'oh no - it's okay this is my daughter - you can tell her' Not anyones but the patients decision. If the patient is not conscious, for example, sedation, or whatever - they sign a waiver at the beginning of hospital stay which states who can be privy to their personal information.

If it was an accident. It would be the patients immediate family member who would be involved becoming at that point the patients advocate (if so necessary) or be given the specifics. I can't tell you for sure about the unconscious upon arrival patient though. I'm sure they contact the next of kin and bring them in. Because someone has to sign the admission forms.

In either case - a patient generally signs the admission forms which in them designates who can and can't be talked to.

oh my, I can't believe a nursing student did this. You have to get the patients permission to inform any family member or friends of their condition. She has clearly violated the HIPPA laws. Even if she is a new nursing student HIPPA laws are usually the first thing the nursing instructors go over. She should of been kicked out of the program and she should of written an apology letter to the hosptial becuase they could have been sued for her miss doings.

I agree, we went over HIPPA soooo many times, way before we EVER stepped into any healthcare facility. My first week of nursing school, I could have taught a seminar on HIPPA!

No a dr can't tell visitors about a patients condition without their specific permission to do so. Now - if the visitors are in the room when the doctor is delivering the news, then it would be prudent for him to ask them to leave, because it would NOT be appropriate for him to ask the patient for their permission with various people in the room. Same with a nurse.

Basically I would start a confidential conversation like this

'Mrs. B I have the results of your test. But since you have company, I can come back later or would you like me to discuss it privately?' It is the patients responsibility to say 'oh no - it's okay this is my daughter - you can tell her' Not anyones but the patients decision. If the patient is not conscious, for example, sedation, or whatever - they sign a waiver at the beginning of hospital stay which states who can be privy to their personal information.

If it was an accident. It would be the patients immediate family member who would be involved becoming at that point the patients advocate (if so necessary) or be given the specifics. I can't tell you for sure about the unconscious upon arrival patient though. I'm sure they contact the next of kin and bring them in. Because someone has to sign the admission forms.

In either case - a patient generally signs the admission forms which in them designates who can and can't be talked to.

Thank you for making that more clear for me! I'm sure I'll get it in much more detail before I do clinicals and all, but I was just curious.

So, let's say Jane is in a car accident. Jane's husband, Joe, goes to the hospital. The doctor would be allowed to give Joe Jane's information, right? Is it because they are married and Joe can legally speak for Jane when she is unable to speak for herself? What about girlfriends/boyfriends? Or sisters/brothers parents/children or other family members? Sorry if I'm asking too many questions, I'm just trying to get a clear perspective. Thanks so much to all who answer my many questions :)

Specializes in ER, Med/Surg.

Does anyone *KNOW* if the patient did not ask this person to call for them? I frequently have patients ask me to call "so-and-so" for them.

Pat

Specializes in Palliative Care, NICU/NNP.

I may be thrown off this forum but in all honesty, some of your replies sound like she killed someone. Every place I've worked there are HIPPA violations going on all over the place involving staff talking about patients in non-confidential terms. There are far worse things being done every day.

She made a mistake. She probably thought more about informing her friends for their sake and HIPPA was secondary. She can review HIPPA and get on with her career. If it keeps happening then she should be removed.

Can you honestly say that if your best friend's mother was brought in to the hospital you wouldn't call your friend?

Jen- It would actually be a HIPPA violation if they mentioned any test in front of the guest of the pt. Like Mrs S, I have the results of your AIDS test.... I have the results of your biopsy, pregnancy test, etc.

The doctor would have no way to know who the person is in the room in relation to the pt and could not speak medical lingo unless the pt suggested he do so.

Specializes in Maternal - Child Health.
She probably thought more about informing her friends for their sake and HIPPA was secondary...

Can you honestly say that if your best friend's mother was brought in to the hospital you wouldn't call your friend?

Yes, I can. To do so without the patient's express permission is a violation of federal law.

Sorry if anyone thinks that is too harsh, but that's how it is.

I value my license and livelihood too much to take a STUPID chance like that!

Specializes in Med/Surg <1; Epic Certified <1.

It just makes sense....it's not anyone else's duty or right or obligation to notify family members of anything health-related unless given permission or specifically asked...

My daughter was pregnant 5 years ago and thought she was in labor. Her "lovely" (now ex-) husband was working or whatever...so I took her to the hospital....the RN who came in to check her early on in L & D (and was not a nice person to begin with) came out and said something about testing her for her STD (forget which one now)....I'm sure I looked shocked and my daughter just kept nodding at the RN with tears running down her cheeks...she hadn't told me what she suspected as she was humiliated (turns out she found out later she wasn't infected after all)....the RN was clueless and went about her way....

But when another nurse came on later and she could tell we were upset, we told her what had happened....the first nurse came back later and said, "Oh, since you had your mom in here, I figured she knew. Sorry." like she meant it about 5%.

Too bad HIPAA wasn't in force then...and it's situations like that that probably helped enact a law that was needed for folks who don't have a lick of common sense....best words of wisdom: if you're in doubt, keep your trap shut. I wouldn't ever want to do that to a patient of mine or their family.

Well, s/he is a nursing STUDENT! She is only there for part of the shift & s/he is there to learn. She should have asked the nursing instructor assigned to her what to do. She violated the HIPAA act big time & if this is a dysfunctional family... well, you get the point.

Specializes in ICU, PICC Nurse, Nursing Supervisor.

It does not matter she should have reported this to the patients nurse or her nursing instructor.

Does anyone *KNOW* if the patient did not ask this person to call for them? I frequently have patients ask me to call "so-and-so" for them.

Pat

I guess my only question is was the student asked to call the family by the patient?

If s/he was, is it still a HIPPA violation?

Dot

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