For those "medicly minded" students feeling like they're in the wrong field of study. - page 4

Fellow suferrers, I'm writing this because there may be others like me out there before I realized that nursing has almost nothing to do with science, or medicine, and is often at odds with the... Read More

  1. by   nursbee04
    jess joy -
    I am in an ADN program and I have yet to write a paper on "how to be a good nurse." Yes, I have heard all about Florence, but she is not the cornerstone of my program. Our papers, too, are on diseases and disease processes.

    Peeps -
    Maybe the ADN program in your area is focused differently than mine. We did have to endure the touchy feely stuff, but we get our share of science. Though I must admit the touchy feely stuff is an important aspect of our job.

    You sound like a very intelligent person and I'm sure whatever field you decide on you'll be great in. Good luck!
    Last edit by nursbee04 on Dec 21, '02
  2. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    Thank you,

    I appreciate all the responses to a topic older than this BB. I wanted to also look into other programs to compare my experience and see if it was similar. It would seem, in the words of more than one frustrated nursing student, that my program "sucks ass" :chuckle. The lack of chemistry beyond that for 101 and any other science below the 200 level class probably precludes discussion of physiology, pharmacology, pathology, or anything else interesting.

    I have nothing to lose by going to the two main university programs, explainig my need for science, and seeing what they have for a curicculum. I think I might be able to reconcile my feelings for the touchy-feely if there were a heavy science requirement.
    One of the schools has a Biology department that lets you plan which courses you'll take to gain your BS outside of the corerequisites. To be able to blend marine biology and histology into a degree in Animal Anatomy and Physiology that will carry the requirements of the PA as well as some of the NP programs isvery exciting. I know that makes some people roll thier eyes back, but it really turns me on....................Oh gawwwd not like that!:imbar but a little tingly anyway.

    There were some people on this thread that were concerned that I might want to get away from the touchy-feely because I may find it difficult to care about my patients on a personal level. I do care about patients on that level, I have a dynamic bedside manner, I've even been told that I'm charming and patients enjoy my company. There is a personal bond with patients, but I have to admit that it stops beyond the walls of the institution. I can't get very interested in thier social well-being, or the possibility that outside stressors affect them in some peculiar way. Like that great example that Oramar gave about the nurse that thought the patient was looking away from her in some cultural context. I would never assume that on initial examination, because it just isn't a parameter that I can manipulate for an outcome, so logicly it would not be considered on that level. I do understand why that nurse was thinking that way because I've been through that now, so I see it for what it is and how it can happen to someone.


    You know, you guys are decent people. So far we've communicated opposing viewpoints brilliantly. I feel like I've made alot of milelage into my "identity crisis". I wish I could look into some of the programs that were described here, but I'm stuck with the Maryland University System.

    Whatever I do, I will always hold high regard for nurses and thier education.

    If someone has any more input of any kind I'll keep posting to it. I'm between semesters and I feel like I'm retired or something!
  3. by   dianthe1013
    Peeps:

    Whatever I do, I will always hold high regard for nurses and thier education.
    Buuuuuut, you don't. At least, not the education part. Right?

    I took my anatomy, and micro at a 2 year college. Since those courses don't transfer outside of the ADN-BSN to any four-year institution I imagine they were inadequate to anything but a nursing program.
    I get the feeling that your program has skewed your opinion on this just a bit. Certainly, it's horrifying to consider a curriculum that values psychsocial skills over clinical assessment...but I find myself unable to see the converse as anything positive, either. Sure, it'd be better to be "stuck" with an excellent clinician rather than a subpar one. And yet, if that wonderful clinician saw me as a seething ball of symptoms and vital signs instead of a person, well... I would feel less comforted.

    It is generally accepted within the medical field that doctors focus more on the pathology of illness and disease, while a nurse's concern is of a more holistic nature. They are different approaches to the same goal - healing. And yes, they overlap and bleed into one another. The trick is to figure out which part of the team you want to play for. Are you a pitcher, or do you dig shortstop? You just have to find that niche.

    Still, that said, I don't think that making someone feel better emotionally or psychologically is the sole purpose of nursing; if that were the case, we could just stick a freakin' puppy in the patient's room and everything would be dandy. And most people do expect their doctor to have some people skills. For example: a medical student ex-boyfriend of mine once got marks off a pediatric rotation evaluation because he made a patient's mother cry. (Yeah, he was a real winner. )

    I forgot what my point was. It's 2:30 in the morning. Forgive me.

    Oh yeah. I understand what you're saying about wanting to deal more with hard science than fluffy bunny crap. It makes sense. I myself would NEVER want to be anywhere NEAR a program that eschewed clinical skill for fluffy bunnies.

    But I still don't buy that you respect nursing education. You've already as much as said you don't. And I'm sure that's because your program's accreditation should be revoked RIGHT NOW.

    Good luck with the PA program, BTW. And I do not envy you the Calc.

    Donna
  4. by   Stargazer
    Well said, Donna.
  5. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    Donna,

    I think the fact that I attended a nursing program shows that I hold nurses in high regard. You have no idea how emasculating that was to my male self. I put alot of effort towards putting that aside to try and learn a new way of seeing the world through nursing's eyes. The program that I went through presented it as virtualy all psychosocial, but who's to say that this program is representing nursing as it should be done. We can see from some of the responses that in general, including you, there is a sense of disdain surrounding psychosocial etiologies for everything. It is also agreed among us that there is a psychosocial aspect to patient care, and that point I respect.
    So, without regard to nurses, and programs that think psychosocial variables should take precedence over science, I respect nursing and hold thier training in high regard.

    From Donna
    I get the feeling that your program has skewed your opinion on this just a bit. Certainly, it's horrifying to consider a curriculum that values psychsocial skills over clinical assessment...but I find myself unable to see the converse as anything positive, either. Sure, it'd be better to be "stuck" with an excellent clinician rather than a subpar one. And yet, if that wonderful clinician saw me as a seething ball of symptoms and vital signs instead of a person, well... I would feel less comforted.
    I will remember to always carry a puppy and a fluffy bunny in those generous labcoat pockets:chuckle
    I think the stereotypical medical minded person has also skewed the minds of some nurses that hold closer to psychosocial values than they do medicine. I am definitely more on the medical side of how my program presented nursing, but I really believe that I possess greater people skills than most nurses that I have worked with. For example, I was in sales for years before going back to school. During that time I learned people skills the hard way. If people don't think you care about thier needs, they don't buy from you. If you're a phony, you could be giving the crap away for free and nobody would take it. I was the top salesperson everywhere I worked because I learned how to make people feel good about themselves and me. In clinicals that ability was noted on my evaluations.

    My negative marks in clinical were more having to do with spending too much time gathering drug information and presenting more than needed about the drugs before supervised administration as a time-management issue. My careplans were always less psychosocial and more clinical in focus, but not because I don't care how the patient feels, it's because psychosocial context is vague to me.

    I think if you were forced to endure me as your clinician, you would be charmed to health by my value to you as a person, but you would seek comfort in my science skills to trust me to heal you.
  6. by   Neon8
    I have a bachelor's degree in nursing. It required three chemistry classes- not one: General Chemistry, Organic Chemistry, and BioChemistry. It required College-llevel Allgebra and Statistics. and other extra prereqs like developmental psychology.. Having said that, after all these prerequisites, I was disappointed in the content of the nursing classes. Talk about a let-down.
  7. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    Neon,
    Yup, I saw the Towson University nursing prerequesites while I was browsing biology degrees. I got excited initialy about the organic chem and statistics requirements, but after looking at the course descriptions it seems as if science is barely mentioned. That would be the same as my previous program unfortunately, with the exception of the extra math and chem.

    The biology degree I'm looking at requires 2 semesters of general chem in lower-level and 2 of biochem in the upper-lvel course.

    Ya' think I'll actualy use all that knowledge later?

    You betcha, but never in harmony with sociology or psychosocial context. That's not realistic for nursing to think that's going to happen. Sorry to hear you got ripped-off.
  8. by   babynursewannab
    [QUOTE]

    Oh yeah. I understand what you're saying about wanting to deal more with hard science than fluffy bunny crap. It makes sense. I myself would NEVER want to be anywhere NEAR a program that eschewed clinical skill for fluffy bunnies.

    QUOTE]

    Oh, the VISUALS.... :chuckle
  9. by   babynursewannab
    Originally posted by dianthe1013
    Oh yeah. I understand what you're saying about wanting to deal more with hard science than fluffy bunny crap. It makes sense. I myself would NEVER want to be anywhere NEAR a program that eschewed clinical skill for fluffy bunnies.

    Oh! The VISUALS...
  10. by   babynursewannab
    Sorry, I had a moron moment with the posting!

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