For students that are undecided between RN/PA

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I wanted to let anyone that is considering PA vs NP or RN know that I have experienced a semester of nursing classes, and found that the curicculum did not match my expectations nor seem appropriate for later consideration of applicability to a PA program post BSN.

I don't want to blather on about a subject that I have been vocal about since I came to the board. This debate has been worked over and over on many threads, but never before with someone that had been through nursing classes, to my knowledge.

If there is an interest expressed, I will post away and answer questions for the people that wish to discuss the topic.

Emyrald,

This is from the BON in Pennsylvania

18.55. Collaborative agreement.

(a) A collaborative agreement is the signed written agreement between a CRNP and a collaborating physician in which they agree to the details of the collaborative arrangement between them with respect to the care of CRNP patients.

(b) The collaborative agreement between a physician and a CRNP who will prescribe drugs shall satisfy the following requirements. The agreement shall:

(1) Identify the parties, including the collaborating physician, the CRNP and a substitute physician who will provide collaboration and direction for up to 30 days if the collaborating physician is unavailable.

(2) Identify the area of practice in which the CRNP is certified.

(3) Identify the categories of drugs from which the CRNP may prescribe or dispense in accordance with 18.54 (relating to prescribing and dispensing parameters).

(4) Contain attestation by the collaborating physician that the physician has knowledge and experience with any drug that the CRNP will prescribe.

(5) Specify the circumstances and how often the collaborating physician will personally see the patient, based on the type of practice, sites of service and condition of the patient, whether the treatment is for an ongoing or new condition, and whether the patient is new or continuing.

(6) Specify the conditions under which the CRNP may prescribe a Schedule II controlled substance for up to 72 hours.

(7) Be kept at the primary practice location of the CRNP and a copy filed with the Bureau of Professional and Occupational Affairs.

(8) Be made available for inspection to anyone seeking to confirm the scope of practice of the CRNP.

(9) Be updated by the collaborating physician and the CRNP whenever it is changed substantively.

(10) Specify the amount of professional carried by the CRNP.

© The CRNP shall notify the Bureau whenever a collaborative agreement of a CRNP who prescribes and dispenses drugs is updated or terminated

{end quote}

Doesn't sound like NPs are practicing independently there.

Specializes in CVOR,CNOR,NEURO,TRAUMA,TRANSPLANTS.

The quote is also backed up from any Nursing State Board of Certifications.

PA's are not licensed they are Certified. Hense why they Practice under a Physican. Nuse Practioners HOLD License.

I suggest you do more research..

Just a thought

Zoe

Hey,

Anybody know of a state where NPs are independent?

Specializes in CVOR,CNOR,NEURO,TRAUMA,TRANSPLANTS.

Thank You

You have just proved my point in so many ways You have no idea

Its Mandated per state as I stated above and so did the article.

Zoe

From Zoe

The accrediation is when you sit for the boards one cannot practice unless one has passed the boards and recieved a PAC

No, I mean like the nursing schools are accredited by the NLN........that sort of thing.

The above scopes of practice for NPs are not independent of a physician. The physician is apparently involved, so what the heck do you mean?

Specializes in CVOR,CNOR,NEURO,TRAUMA,TRANSPLANTS.

Yes we all Know Nursing Boards are accredeted. We are discussing Physican Assistants..... They need to sit before an certification board.ie: to be Certified, not licensed.

Its like this

If this is what You feel you need to do in life then so be it....

Its apparent that you are looking for nothing more than a confrontation so that you can justify in some way why it is that you see how Nursing is your bag. Thats fine , thats cool and thats your options.... But before you start tossing things off about Nursing that its evident that you dont Understand. I have provided you with information, sites, and aspects pros' and cons' of either.

Sorry to say but I have grown tired of this matter...

Zoe

Here you go, Peeps...

From the American Academy of Family Physicians

Ref: http://www.aafp.org/afp/20011015/policy.html

Legal Status of Nurse Practitioners by State in 2000

Without physician supervision or collaboration:

Alaska, Ariz., Ark., Colo., D.C., Hawaii, Iowa, Me., Mich., Mont., N.D., N.H., N.J., N.M., Okla., Ore., R.I., Tex., Utah, Wash., W. Va., Wyo. NA

With physician supervision:

Calif., Fla., Ga., Ida., La., Mass., S.C., Wis. Ala., Miss., N.C., Pa., S.D., Va.

With physician collaboration:

Conn., Del., Ill., Ind., Kan., Ky., Ohio, Md., Minn., Mo., Neb., Nev., N.Y., Vt. Tenn.

Nurse Practitioner Prescribing Status by State in 2000

Prescribe independently, including controlled substances:

Alaska, Ariz., D.C., Iowa, Me., Mont., N.H., N.M., Ore., Vt., Wash., Wis., Wy.

Prescribe with physician collaboration, including controlled substances:

Ark., Calif., Colo., Conn., Del., Fla., Ga., Hawaii, Idaho, Ill., Ind., Kan., Mass., Md., Mich., Minn., N.C., N.D., Neb., N.J., N.Y., Okla., Pa., R.I., S.C., S.D., Tenn., Utah, W. Va.

Prescribe with physician collaboration, excluding controlled substances and/or with schedule limits:

Ala, Ky., La., Mo., Miss., Nev., Ohio, Tex., Va.

Specializes in CVOR,CNOR,NEURO,TRAUMA,TRANSPLANTS.

I Applaude You so much KCSUN3.

Thank you

Zoe

Zoe,

I see where the confusion lies.

BON are given authority by each state's legislature. BON do not accredit nursing schools. The National Leauge of Nurses approves (accredits),puts thier seal of approval on nursing schools as upholding standards of education.

Certainly, PA programs have the same sort of thing.

That's what I was referring to.

I think you, and others, see me attacking nursing in some way. I just don't like the psychosocial foundation of it. I want to help others that think there is something dysfunctional with them, like they don't like people or something if they don't just love psychology and families and babies and wonder how thier home life is a contributing factor in the disease process.

It's ok not to like it.

We are not evil self-serving narccisists for feeling this way.

Run........run to freedom!

:chuckle

Thanks KCsun,

That shows (by that site anyway) that in a few states NPs are, or could be interpreted as being independent.

The generaly broad statement that NPs work independent of the physician then, is not really the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. As we can all see, the states vary greatly in what NPs are allowed to do.

Peeps, if you want to be a PA, then fine, go be a PA. But why the heck are you on a NURSING site trying to convince people that the psychosocial aspect of nursing is bunk? Truth is, there are advantages and disadvantages to being both a PA or NP. Personally, I feel that an NP is better and I think many other people on this site do as well because it is a NURSING site. It's fine to have your opinions but don't go trying to convince a bunch of NURSES that they should all be PAs instead of NPs, or that PAs are better in some way. Because obviously, most of us feel otherwise.

So NPs need supervision in 14 states, and "collaboration" in 15 states, and are independant completely in the rest. Just goes to show you can never generalize about nursing in the US! Frankly, I would rather be an NP needing supervision in 14 states, than a PA who needs supervision in all 50. That said, some people will love being a PA and would never want to be an NP. Who cares? To each his own and I hope everyone finds the right fit for them.

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