Difference bet 2 yr and 4yr school - page 3

Beside time and money, what is the difference or benefits of a 4 year college for nursing or is there no difference. why... :clown:... Read More

  1. by   RedSox33RN
    The ADN and BSN students in my college go to the exact same clinicals and lectures. Most of us "oldies" are in the ADN program, and most of the younger ones that live on campus and are in their 20's are going for their BSN. But that is not universally true.

    My program, besides integrated all ADN and BSN students, awards the BSN students and ADN after 2 years, and in fact requires them to take the NCLEX (this I think is new, or maybe I just hadn't heard of it before last month). That way if they'd like to work as a GN or RN while obtaining their BSN, they can. Most do in some capacity, and many can find work and have their employer pick of some of their education costs. That is what I plan on doing.

    I LOVE my school, a Catholic college, but it is wayyyyyy expensive ($670/credit or about $20K a year) so I'm not sure I'll get my BSN there. Plus it is over an hour commute one way, and the hospital I work at as an LNA now is the other direction, so I can't work and go to school on the same day.

    Some question why I'd want a BSN at my age, plus I have the first of 4 kids going to college in 3 years. I will plug away at it slowly, hopefully online as much as possible.

    But I must say that I work with a LOT of great nurses, on a Med/Surg floor. And I don't know who has a Bachelor's and who doesn't. Some put in on their ID badges, others don't. It certainly doesn't mean there is no difference, but for some it is what they want because they want to take their nursing degrees and go into management or get their Master's, and others are very content with their role and having an ADN.

    The truth is, ALL nurses are needed. My NM started out as an LPN 25 years ago and worked her way into a BSN, all while working. But she knew she wanted management. It is personal preference for every one of us, an no one degree is "better" than another - one just provides more options and further expansion on nursing theory, as a general statement.
  2. by   bowkerj
    In Oregon most jobs state "BSN Preferred" in the job description. I think over time more and more hospitals and clinics are leaning towards preferring a qualified BSN nurse over a qualified ADN nurse. But since there is such a nursing shortage nationwide I think ADN's will continue to have just as many opportunties as BSN nurses. If you want to get into Case Management, Clinical Research or get an advanced degree then the a BSN program is the way to go. I am starting a BSN program next month and eventually will get a Master's. I don't see myself working as a floor nurse forever! But it is totally a personal choice! Good luck :spin:

    J
  3. by   ProfRN4
    :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse [font="comic sans ms"]need i say more?!?!?!? we just have to agree to disagree. just remember, your education does not have to stop at the adn level (if that's the route you choose). i started with an adn, and am a year away from my msn. if you have the means, time and money, go for the bsn. i was 18, right out of high school, and wanted to get out asap. then i discovered i'm a big fan of education. there's no reason to stop at entry level (unless you're not a big fan of education).
  4. by   smilin_gp
    [quote=bonemarrowrn]:deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse

    Hehe, I love the smiley creativity on this forum :Melody: .
  5. by   DaFreak71
    [quote=daytonite]whoa! butterflybee. . .let me give you a bit of a different perspective here from everyone else who posted to your question! first of all, i learned nursing in a 2-year adn program and finished up 11 years later with a bsn from a university. there is a difference here that most adn students are not aware of. don't confuse the actual hands on practice of nursing with the education behind it. both adn and bsn programs are going to teach you the actual hands on nursing. to say that students who go through the 2 year program are far more prepared than the 4 year students is not true and this is a statement that someone made based on their own experience and observations as an adn.

    i prefaced my comments by saying "in my particular area".


    it is not correct thinking to believe that an adn can evaluate the education of a bsn. how can an adn nurse possibly know what goes on in a bsn program if they have never been through and completed one? if there wasn't such a big difference between the two ways to get nursing knowledge, why would both kinds of programs remain around? also, you were given a viewpoint that is bigoted and very common among adn nurses who justify having "only an adn" by attempting to equate it with a bsn education.

    i have no bias whatsoever towards a bsn or adn degree. it just so happens that "in my particular area" the four year program has a bad reputation for churning out nurses who are strong on the administration theories, but weak when it comes to hands on. that is why the hospitals down here "in my particular area" prefer to hire nurses from the two year community college as opposed to the four year university. to say that this is biased or jealous is reading far too much into the motives behind my statements. so take it easy on the accusations, ok?

    i know, i was an adn who used to say the same things--until i went back to get my bsn. adns who trash and belittle their bsn colleagues are jealous.

    wow, what sort of trashing went on in this thread? it must have escaped my critical reading abilities.




    it's that simple. they have no idea what going through a bsn program entails. (you will also find this kind of thinking with lpns who believe that their hands on training is just as equal to that of an rn.) so, don't fall into that cesspool of thinking, please.

    the cesspool of thinking that i see is jumping to the erroneous conclusion that someone expressing their observations about "their particular area" qualifies as being bigoted or jealous. it's that simple.

    to summarize my position: if you live in central mississippi i would get your 2 year degree and then complete an online bsn through usa or phoenix or wherever. the hospitals here know that the adn students are more prepared clinically. they see it all the time and aren't shy about stating their preference to hire new nurses from the community college. that being said, it's always a good idea to further your education and to know what the requirements of your ideal job are. many will require a bsn.

    unlike some, i can only offer an opinion based on my personal experiences. this thread about adn vs. bsn is tired and wants to go to sleep now. the original poster wasn't trying to stir this debate up, she wanted opinions. that's what she got. try not to bash those of us who have a different opinion based on personal experience.

    for the record, i do plan to go on to a bsn, as does my husband (he is starting his bsn program this month!), so please don't accuse people of being bigoted or jealous without knowing them.

    adri
  6. by   gwt
    HI!
    Whoa! What a post. Let me put my 2 cents in. While the ADN does have probably more practical skills going into the profession, the BSN leaves school with the critical thinking skills nessessary to understand and respond to the underlying physiological aspects of a disease process or the many biochemical cascades and feedback loops that constitute a physical emergency. Add to that, the advanced psycho-social skills taught at this level which prepare the practitioner to deal holistically with the patient and their family as well as community, and you can see that there truly is a difference.

    Our assessment professor introduced us to a study that compared the proficiency of ADN and BSN nurses in our region. The authors concluded, based on statistical significance that the ADN can care for four pateints safley. The BSN...eight. In her conclusion to that lecture, she reference her clinical teaching days. She said that her graduates got into the hospital environment and spent a lot of time trying to get organized, but when the right crisis came along, the lightbulb goes on...and its great to be there!!!
    G
  7. by   lovingpecola
    Could you please provide the reference to the study you're referring to?

    Thanks!
  8. by   grannynurse FNP student
    This discussion has a habit of coming up every few months. And if it is not about the difference in nursing education between two and four year programs, then some touts how good three year programs are. I have the unusual experience of having completed all but the last five months of a three year program, completing a two year program and obtaining a BSN. For what it is worth, in my experience, todays three year programs are similar to my old, 1964 program. By this I mean, the first years focus is on obtain liberal arts credits at a local college. And the last two years are focused on nursing. Two year programs generally require a minimum of 62 to 64 credit hours. Four year programs require a minimum of 120 hours for their degree. The minimum number of hours required to graduate are set by the state's education department/nursing board. A program may add additional hours in areas they deem important but cannot subtract hours from the state's requirements. In some areas, two year programs turn out better nurses. Likewise, there are four year programs that turn out better nurses. A person needs to look at their focus and what is important to them, their expectations of their education program.

    Grannynurse
  9. by   KES
    It is not correct to say that there is NO dofference between a 2 year and a 4year program. Usually people who take a 2 year program want to belive there is no difference. In the area where I live there is a HUGE pay difference between a 2 year and 4 year education. Also, at my school which is a 4 year program, we have 99% pass rate on the NCLEX. Your statements were MUCh too vague!
  10. by   GrnHonu99
    Quote from daytonite
    whoa! butterflybee. . .let me give you a bit of a different perspective here from everyone else who posted to your question! first of all, i learned nursing in a 2-year adn program and finished up 11 years later with a bsn from a university. there is a difference here that most adn students are not aware of. don't confuse the actual hands on practice of nursing with the education behind it. both adn and bsn programs are going to teach you the actual hands on nursing. to say that students who go through the 2 year program are far more prepared than the 4 year students is not true and this is a statement that someone made based on their own experience and observations as an adn. it is not correct thinking to believe that an adn can evaluate the education of a bsn. how can an adn nurse possibly know what goes on in a bsn program if they have never been through and completed one? if there wasn't such a big difference between the two ways to get nursing knowledge, why would both kinds of programs remain around? also, you were given a viewpoint that is bigoted and very common among adn nurses who justify having "only an adn" by attempting to equate it with a bsn education. i know, i was an adn who used to say the same things--until i went back to get my bsn. adns who trash and belittle their bsn colleagues are jealous. it's that simple. they have no idea what going through a bsn program entails. (you will also find this kind of thinking with lpns who believe that their hands on training is just as equal to that of an rn.) so, don't fall into that cesspool of thinking, please. having worked with new grad nurses within a hospital orientation program i can tell you from my own experiences with both adn and bsn graduates that they are equally lacking in hands on experience doing nursing procedures. it is the nastier, bigoted adns however who seem to take delight in seeing bsns struggling to master nursing procedures just as much as they themselves struggle. however, bsns are exposed to a much deeper understanding of nursing in their university programs.

    adns are not given enough information in their programs to be efficient managers and supervisors of their co-workers. you will find very few adns who are nursing managers and leaders. if they are fortunate enough to obtain one of those positions, they often will go back to school to get their bsn. adns also lack a more enriched background in the behavior sciences because an adn program of study doesn't have enough time to accomodate those areas of study, although they do touch upon them. they do not learn or are given enough information about the overall operation of the healthcare system. they are only briefly exposed to nursing research and do not go into much depth with it. most have no appreciation of how to do a nursing research project. these, however, are things that are taught in a bsn program.

    one of the things that distingishes a bachelor's degree from an associate degree is the level of thinking and ability to research a subject that is required. talk to some bsn nurses and you will find that they spent a good deal of time in a library researching papers that they were required to write. now, you will hear adns poo-poo that by commenting, "what's so important about that?", or "i had to do research papers too". what is important about it is that they are learning exercises designed to help a person to deepen their analytical abilities and deepen their understanding of a subject. the more of these papers you do, the more you know, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas. the more you know, the more non-judgmental you become. also, bsns receive a much broader liberal arts education. there is just not enough time in aa programs to expose students to all this. the focus of college is to teach students how to think on their own and how to find the answers to questions on their own. adn programs only touch on this. however, bachelor degree students are exposed to a much richer environment of these activities than an associate of arts level student. so, the question you want to be asking yourself is what you want to get out of your education because both kinds of programs are going to teach you to be an rn.

    wow very well said!!! i am often discouraged when i hear individuals say adn's are better prepared than bsn nurses or vice versa. the real learning takes place after graduation and it is those who have the tools to critically think that will really shine.
    Last edit by GrnHonu99 on Jan 6, '06
  11. by   gwt
    Hi.
    If I thought I wouldn't get hammered over a research study, I would post the source latter on and start a new thread.

    Another difference between BSN and ADN would be magnet hospitals. There are two in my area I can think of. If I wish ro travel for a shift, there are several to choose from. In other words, they only hire BSN or better. Several research studies have shown that the bottom line is the key. Hospitals that hire primarily BSN's over ADN's have a significantly lower rate of patient mortality, and therefore, lawsuits, malpractice suits etc. I was in clinical this week with an ADN I highly respect, but a patient asked for some grahm crackers and she gave them to him despite the glucose stick he just had an hour earlier that gave a reading of over 350. I know, 'cause I charted it. Well...?
    g
  12. by   prissy pixie
    Quote from gwt
    I was in clinical this week with an ADN I highly respect, but a patient asked for some grahm crackers and she gave them to him despite the glucose stick he just had an hour earlier that gave a reading of over 350. I know, 'cause I charted it. Well...?
    g
    Hmmm, I didn't realized that mistakes are reserved for ASN/ADN nurses only.

    Very interesting.
  13. by   West_Coast_Ken
    Quote from gwt
    Hospitals that hire primarily BSN's over ADN's have a significantly lower rate of patient mortality, and therefore, lawsuits, malpractice suits etc.
    gwt,

    Can you please post a source for this "information"?

    Regards,

    Ken

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