Circumcision

mlbluvr · Jul 27, 2013

MODERATOR NOTE:This thread is about being forced to participate in procedures in nursing school that one is opposed to.....and do you have a right to refuse.lets stick to topic please.

Yes, you do have that right to refuse to participate in anything you don't wanna do- by not enrolling in nursing school, and or by dropping out when you don't wanna do what they tell you to do, sure you do. They determine the curriculum, not you- and you are free to start your own nursing school, and then to exert your own opinion on your own private students. To get back to the original issue, that is. If anyone cares to start a thread on 'private opinions' of circumcision- send me a link. I'm eager to jump into THAT boisterous fray!

BloomNurseRN, ASN, BSN, RN · Jul 27, 2013

I am not a nursing student yet, but I figured current nursing students would have better knowledge.
I am extremely against routine infant circumcision. Would I be forced to sit in on them or participate in them during nursing school? I have no plans in working a place that performs them if and when I complete it. Just wondering. And if they do make you, would they understand if I took no part in it?

By stating that you're not going to work in a place that performs them, where would you plan to work? LTC, home health, and hospice are about the only thing I can think of. Most hospitals perform them, as do many physicians offices (at least here in the US). That might be something to consider before deciding this is really the field you want to be in.

I can honestly say that I don't agree with abortion but I will never judge or push that on someone else. It's good to know your limitations and do self examination before embarking on something like the medical field.

KelRN215, BSN, RN · Jul 27, 2013

"Thank you, I would like to reiterate that I am not against circumcision. I am against non therapeutic routine infant circumcision where informed consent can not be given by the patient himself. " As noble as that sentiment sounds, it is really none of your business. Parents have very valid reasons for getting their children circumcised, and whether it be one of religious identification or because they saw in a back issue of Reader's Digest that a circumcised glans is less likely to spread HIV, you have no right to have an opinion on their decision. Just as you have no right to tell them what brand of diaper to use, whether to breastfeed or use formula, whether to send them to Montessori or a bilingual pre-pre-kinder. It's none of your business at all. If you want to be a successful nurse, you had better absorb that right now.

I have to disagree. A nurse has every right to HAVE an opinion on certain procedures or on a decision made. Whether or not it's appropriate to express that opinion is a different story.

I often find myself opining things that are contrary to what my patients' parents choose. For example, a child with relapsed cancer who's failed standard treatment and every clinical trial offered. Latest scan shows cancer is rapidly progressing. I think "it's time to take the child home and just love her to the end." Parents might think "we have to do EVERYTHING. If there's another clinical trial that offers us any hope, we're going to do it no matter how hard it is." I, as a nurse, honor that decision but that doesn't mean that I have no right to have my own opinion.

pre-nurseshan · Jul 27, 2013

I have to disagree. A nurse has every right to HAVE an opinion on certain procedures or on a decision made. Whether or not it's appropriate to express that opinion is a different story.
I often find myself opining things that are contrary to what my patients' parents choose. For example, a child with relapsed cancer who's failed standard treatment and every clinical trial offered. Latest scan shows cancer is rapidly progressing. I think "it's time to take the child home and just love her to the end." Parents might think "we have to do EVERYTHING. If there's another clinical trial that offers us any hope, we're going to do it no matter how hard it is." I, as a nurse, honor that decision but that doesn't mean that I have no right to have my own opinion.

Thank you. Nurses are not automatons, they are humans, and the whole point of nursing is that you care. While I agree with Esme that refusing to work for *a facility* that performs circumcisions will limit your employability fairly significantly, having a strong opinion about a cosmetic procedure done without the patient's consent will not, by default, make you a bad nurse.

Our culture's acceptance of RIC is just that - cultural. I'm willing to bet you would not find a British, German, Venezuelan, Indian, Chinese, or even Australian nurse without some level (moderate to extreme) of discomfort at the concept/idea of RIC. We accept it because we're American - well, some of us do, anyway.

Not to mention, where did we come from, people! Who started this whole nursing she-bang?! Who altered the course of history to make nurses and nursing a profession that is repeatedly voted the most trustworthy profession of all? Caring, compassionate *mover and shakers* who were unwilling to take no for an answer, who saw a need and went to meet that need, who looked for ways to head off injustice at the pass and, in so doing, impacted their patients lives for the better! Do you think Florence Nightingale, Clara Barton, Mary Breckinridge, Lillian Wald, Susie King Taylor! any of them, were surrounded by supportive corporations and encouraging societies saying, " Oh wise nurse, thank you for showing us the way! How could we have been so blind?" No! Every one of them fought an uphill battle dictated by her *conscience*.

Not everyone sees this issue the same, it's true. There is no medical indication for RIC, and any one who tries to say otherwise is uninformed or lying. But that's not the point. The OP asked, will I be forced to participate in something I vehemently oppose? The answer, talk to the administration at your NS - probably not. As far as your employability after you graduate/are licensed, cross that bridge when you get to it. Inform yourself of the facts about RIC - like for example, the fact that 17 years ago, a boy was more likely to be circumcised than he is today, and depending on the region, much more likely. Perhaps yours will be one of the names a first semester nursing student will read at some point in the future and think, "Some day, I want make an impact like she did."

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Jul 27, 2013

MODERATOR NOTE:

For the second time.......This thread is NOT about circumcision it is about the ability of the OP in nursing school to opt out of certain procedures.....lets stick to topic PLEASE. If we want to talk about the polarizing subject of circumcision please start another thread.

AllyWill2121 · Jul 27, 2013

I have to disagree. A nurse has every right to HAVE an opinion on certain procedures or on a decision made. Whether or not it's appropriate to express that opinion is a different story.
I often find myself opining things that are contrary to what my patients' parents choose. For example, a child with relapsed cancer who's failed standard treatment and every clinical trial offered. Latest scan shows cancer is rapidly progressing. I think "it's time to take the child home and just love her to the end." Parents might think "we have to do EVERYTHING. If there's another clinical trial that offers us any hope, we're going to do it no matter how hard it is." I, as a nurse, honor that decision but that doesn't mean that I have no right to have my own opinion.

I don't think Jose was saying that a nurse doesn't have a right to have an opinion at all. Just not an opinion on THIER (the parent's) decision.

JoseQuinones · Jul 28, 2013

Let me further comment that there is no way I as an RN am able to help perform elective abortions. (Life of the mother excepted.) I cannot justify it. So I have specifically applied to work in private clinics that specialize in elective plastic surgery. No one comes to a plastic surgery center for an abortion, and my conscience remains clear. You have options.

allnurses Guide · Jul 28, 2013

I am not a nursing student yet, but I figured current nursing students would have better knowledge.
1. I am extremely against routine infant circumcision.
2. Would I be forced to sit in on them or participate in them during nursing school? I have no plans in working a place that performs them if and when I complete it. Just wondering.
3. And if they do make you, would they understand if I took no part in it?

1. You are extremely against routine infant circumcision. No one is going to make you or your child or anyone in your family get circumcised because you are in nursing school. You can remain extremely against it.

2. No one can force you to do so something you are opposed to.

3. Just because no one can force you, doesn't mean there are not consequences for electing to not participate. There may not be consequences or there may be consequences. If you are extremely against something then I am sure you will be willing to accept whatever (if any) there are.

I will say that in accepting the responsibility of caring for people you also accept the responsibility of respecting them and their wishes, some of which may differ from your own. There are times you can attempt to avoid these differing opinions and times you won't be able to.

Ultimately the choice (and subsequent responsibilities) is yours.

Kaysmom8 · Jul 28, 2013

I'm in the L&D rotation now and I watched several circumcisions being done mainly because at the hospital I was at they did them in a room right beside the nursery. I was able to dip the pacifier in sugar water whenever the baby needed it and that's as much participation any of us students had during the procedure. We were not made to watch if we didn't want to, but please be mindful in voicing your strong opinions to your instructors as nurses are supposed to be non judgmental of others decisions. You may not like what option a patient or their caregivers have chosen but it's their decision and you have to respect that.

**NickiLaughs, ADN, BSN, RN** · Feb 9, 2015

I've been wanting to give my personal experience for a long time. I know this is an old post, but i believe this is an appropriate place to post it.

When I had my son, I did my research independently and evaluated it from various sites, and ultimately decided not to circumcise.

My husband's and mine experience were pretty much the opposite of other's, and we definitely received prejudice against our decision, it still upsets me to this day.

After labor and enjoying my son on his very first day of life and still very exhausted at this point, the daytime L & D nurse came in, and asked me, "when are you going to circumcise your son."

We had done our paperwork prior, it indicated our desire to fore-go the procedure, but apparently she had not read it. Which is fine, we all get busy. I stated, "oh, we aren't going to."

I received a very nasty look from her, as well as, "Oh well let me get the doctor to talk to you." As if our decision was uneducated, as if we weren't fine with our decision. I told her that was unnecessary but she had already bounded out the door.

The pediatrician came in about 45 minutes later saying, "I heard you had questions about circumcision."

I explained that we did not, that we had already made our decision and we didn't think it was necessary, as there wasn't much medical evidence and we had no religious preference. The pediatrician agreed with us and said ultimately it was a personal preference and off he went.

That nurse never came back once in her entire shift. I'm assuming she was so offended by my decision that I literally never saw a nurse until the next shift. Thank goodness I sorta knew how to massage my own fundus,and I knew how to discontinue my own IV when phlebitis started in.... I mean, there's avoidance and then there's that....

Obviously, I'm not a fan of circumcision, but I would never let it affect my nursing judgement or care of a patient. Because ultimately, regardless, it's my patient and they have the right to make their own decisions for themselves, their children. I do not work in L & D, but I have had to support my patient and get past different beliefs in order to provide good care despite my personal feelings. Then I would go home, and drink wine and remember that ultimately, my patients knew their nurse cared.

Don't be like that nurse I had. I know she had opposite beliefs of yourself and myself, but it ultimately could end up causing you your ability to be an effective nurse.

mamagui · Jun 12, 2015

Until evolution catches up, humans will continue to be born with and develop stuff that is a throwback to the days we walked on all fours and had tails, but that now only causes disease, and even death. Unfortunately, only one of those things-foreskin, can be removed right after birth, and quick and cheap. The othe stuff lingers and causes all kinds of havoc, then costs billions to try to remove or correct- molars, tonsills, adenoids, the appendix, and other possibly unknowns.

I know this has been a long time since this was posted, but OMG, the foreskin is NOT an evolutionary 'leftover.' It protects that glans and helps with lubrication. I'm sorry you did not learn that in A&P