The Benefits And Drawbacks Of Private For-Profit Schools - Page 3

Couple of other things I've noticed about the subject:

- because they are smaller, private non-for-profits tend to apply the same required courses to all students, whatever they're actually studying for. One school I know has LPN, BSN and medical assitant students attending same "Pharm I" lectures, with the idea that NCLEX is the same for everyone and medical assistants "may benefit from that". The difficulty level of the lectures was geared toward medical assistants, as nobody of them would be able to pass the course otherwise. BSN students were given "Pharm II" course, but LPN students were not allowed to do it.

- for the same reason, private for-profits may have less local connections for arranging students' required clinical experience, externships, observerships, etc. Besides sub-par clinical placement, it can lead to the situation when students are told to find something to do in order to cover theur clinical hours requirements.

- while these schools may not require pre-requisits and tout themselves as "all-included" programs, they can "offer" mandatory courses which are obviously not necessary and not required for certification (like Advanced English Composition... one cannot write a SBAR note without it, I guess), "Medical Economics" and "Death and Dying". And they charge for it, too.

-some private for-profits cater mostly for students from the same environment (ethnic communities, career changers, etc.) They do not often advertise it, and they cannot, legally, deny admission based solely on that, but it can make studying very uncomfortable for students who do not belong there.

Last but not least: sim labs are nice to have, but they are not at all necessary and no substitute for ol' fashioned hands-on clinical training.
The questions applicants probably need ask before paying that kind of money for a nursing licence should be: certification of the school, where most of the students come from, NET/TEAS/etc. scores, NCLEX passing rates, clinical palcements (for all terms, and by whom they are arranged) and professors' qualifications. If these questions cannot be answered right away and in details, then get out of the place and spend your money somewhere else.

Don't forget that most of the students don't understand the financial implications that they can get all their other car loans, credit cards and other instalment loans wiped out in a bankruptcy filing, but the student loans will always be attached to their heads until it's paid-off in full.

Student loans are not discharged from any bankruptcy protection. A few friends not nursing majors found this the hard way as music majors or arts majors with over $55k to $94k or more in student loans.

Oh yeah and they also have no concept of how much $137k is. They think that they can earn that in a year or two with overtime. In general I've heard most of these schools price tuition at about what they think there grads can reasonably earn in a year.

I'm attending a for-profit school.

- I don't have to worry about tuition because I'm not paying for it. The military and grants pay for it. So...what debt?
- I already have a job lined up. $19.50 and it should go to $20.00 in a few mths. I worked as a CNA. I networked like crazy. Nepotism...pays off. LOL
- NCLEX scores were comparable to that of the regular schools. I thought, 'Why not...?'

The only drawbacks?
- Disorganizaton. My God. I'm satisfied with the education that I'm rec'ving. We have some really great instructors, but...SMH
It's not them. It's 'management'. The typical 'right hand doesn't know what the left is up to' type situation. Our instructors are playing it by ear lke us. LOL There's always something crazy going on with the schedule or something crazy going on with the room assignments...or some headupa..sitis type situation going on with the clinical dates.
I knew that something was strange when they kept flagging the militry vets for immunizations. There are, like 5-6 in my class and we were, like, "No - we don't need these immunizations. It says so on record and it says 'exempt' on the freakin' paper.
We are I M M U N E!"
LOL It took like 5 weeks to straighten out. They kept losing the paper even though the woman told us to just slide under her door. Next day? She doesn't have it!
Jesus Christ! Well - where was the paper running off to? LOL
Probably the same place where socks end up after washing them, I'm sure.

Well, graduation is right around the corner. After countless scathing feedback memos, mindless complaining, numerous face-to-face b...h sessions with the instructor and program director?
We're all just too worn out to fight these people any longer. They tried to accomodate but things just got worse. It's like that saying, "If you think our problems are bad, just wait until you see our solutions!"
Meanwhile -- GRADUATION, as I just said, is right around the corner. The countdown has begun. We're all just like, "Get me the hell outta here!"
LOL

- Clinical sites. We keep losing them! We, at least, got to attend the hospitals. The classes behind me? I dunno what they're going to do. It's sim-lab for everyone, I guess. Why do we lose them? The hospitals don't want LVNs there. I've been paying attn to the job openings and...there actually has been a slow-down in the number of LVN positions available. I don't care about working in a hospital right now. The pay is low. More importantly, my first year as a nurse? It's all about getting as much experience and my certifications (ACLS/ IV)...and, at the end of the day? It's about us just getting our foot in the door. I've seen that even the most stubborn among my classmates (those with no med exp who joined b/c of the 'shortage') are happy to take a job - any job - when it's all said and done. I have a few classmates making mad dashes to get their CNAs before graduation. I'm proud that my classmates are realists. LOL I don't want to see anyone fail.
I used to tell them of the struggles that I'd read about on this site - from new grads who couldn't get work - every day and tell them to hush up and be grateful that they have offers to complain about. .
Anyway, yes. During maternity rotation? The hospitals kicked us out because the RN students from another school were there. TWICE!



Why'd I attend a 'for-profit' school?

- I got 1 word and 2 syllables for you: WAITLISTS!
LOL
I'm not kidding around. There's a pre-nursing student at my job who shakes her head at the matter, too. The RN programs in my city boast a 2 year waitlist on average. She's going to Corpus, I think, to finish up her BSN. A good place. It's the border. She should be able to find a job down there.

I wasn't even halfway done with my pre-reqs. When I learned of the wait, it just killed my motivation. Please -- I'm 31, not 21. Everything is on hold until I get out of school. 31 years old is too old to be in this phase of my life: Still in school. Stagnant... and going nowhere.
"What do you do for a living?"
"Oh...I'm a 'career student'!"
Seriously?
LOL
No. It's time to have a life. 'Student' is not a career.

- I'd switched majors (and no I'm not one of those who rode in on the 'nursing shortage' wave. I'm not new to healthcare. Just switching to the nursing side) and didn't have the energy to do the hoop-jumping required for traditional nursing school.

- Way I see it? I'm beating the competition to the jobs. None of us have any idea what this job market's going to look like in 1 year (which is the time that I would've graduated had I chosen an ADN program). There is an influx of people fleeing into nursing right now. I'm 2 steps in front of the horde, honey! LOL Supply/Demand will tilt in Texas. We have too many people coming in from other states and too many other people jumping into nursing right now. Saturation WILL come to the bulk of Texas. Sooner rather than later. It's just a matter of 'when'.
I'd like to get my RN after this...then work on my degree. But...babysteps. My mission at this time was getting my training, getting my nurse credentials and getting my foot in the door... the fastest way that I know how.

I'm pleased with my choice, despite the headaches.
...and, contrary to popular belief, every student attending a 'for profit' isn't a bumbling idiot. In truth, most of my classmates either have med experience (paramedics, xray, medical sec(i forget the technical term., etc...) and/or have already taken their college basics. They're not stupid. They can add. The understand debt-income. LOL

They, like me, hit their heads against a wall and just... gave the traditional schools the 'bird'.
LOL

Where do you live that there are waitlists? I have to say, I've never heard of anything like that in Texas. Not that I'm saying it doesn't exist, just curious where.

No wait list or pre-requisites are not benefits. Those things mean they admit anybody with a pulse and don't academically prepare you in the same way that your public school or private non-profit would. These schools are extremely expensive, play dirty tricks on consumers, have a poor reputation, and have far higher rates of student loan default, drop outs, and unemployment. Stay away from them - as my mother always said, there are no short cuts in life.

Stephalump: I found that most of the schools in the SF bay area and many in the Boston Metro area tend to have extensive wait-lists. You can bust your hump getting A's in all of your pre-reqs and still get wait-listed or placed in a lottery for a year or two. No fun.

And as for TX, a friend of mine lives in Austin and got wait-listed for the ACC program. : / Not sure where you are, but maybe it has something to do with living near a larger metro area? In any case, I'm glad you don't/didn't have to suffer through the wait.

Thanks for the response! Interesting...

How does the waiting list work? Is there no competitive selection, just first come, first serve? Or are you put in order of GPA and the top gets in?

I suppose my school has a "list" based on a pints system. The top students get spots and everyone else is denied and had to reapply next cycle if they wish. No waiting.

Oh, and I'm from Houston - not a size issue!

I'm from Houston also.. There are waitlists (I was put on one) except instead of being put on 2-3 years long lists you have to shell out $50-$100 a semester to reapply if you don't get in that current semester. I'll be attending a for-profit school because like the OP I'm not getting any younger and I have a child to think about. However I did all my research and the school is accredited by the CCNE (i personally called the CCNE 3 times) just like all the other major universities and is actually a few thousand dollars cheaper than the big private non profit university (HBU). I also work at major hospital in the medical center and have asked many nurses and nurse managers what they think about my decision and have gotten no discouragement.. Basically as long as the school is approved by the TX BON and CCNE accredited it's not a problem. I've even spoken to a Navy Corp recruiter and the school being a for-profit is not a problem becasue it is CCNE accredited.

As far as the original poster's statements about poor clinical sites and no pre-reqs/requirements to be accepted, we have the same sites as the big schools in Houston and take the same HESI and have the same G.P.A requirements as every other school. However because the school has only been in Houston about a year it's not as well-known and the masses haven't flocked. Besides they only accept 40 students a semester so they can't accept everyone anyway. And only have 3 start dates (Spring, Summer, and Fall).

Yes the school is expensive however it's not impossible especially if you have taken most if not all of your pre-reqs elsewhere like I have done.

In the end we'll all sit for the same NCLEX.


Just my .

Oh, yeah, definitely not a size issue. I went to Galveston last year and spent some time in Houston. I couldn't believe how big it was!

I suppose that's one of the more frustrating things. Each school tends to have its own approach to wait listing students. Some rank qualified students on a points system based on a variety of things: gpa, TEAS score, how many times you've been on their wait list, how many credits you have at that school, etc. So, even if you have a 4.0 and a great test score, you might not get into a particular school if you took your pre-reqs elsewhere or haven't been on their wait list before.

My personal favorite is the lottery system. Everyone who satisfies the minimum requirements is entered into the lottery. If you've been in the lotto before without getting picked, your name gets dropped in more times, but no guarantee that you'll be picked that year, and there is no emphasis on gpa or test scores.

So, with that said, I can certainly see the allure of a for profit school with direct entry! No fuss, no muss. I ended up in the middle: A non profit private school that admitted students based on merit. Not quite as cheap as a public school, but no wait and not as expensive as a for profit school. I'm happy with my choice. Hope your journey is going well too.