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can you be a good nurse if money was your incentive for joining the profession
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No. 10
from wildtime88
Old Jan 04, 2002, 12:58 PM

I wouldn't do it for free and I wouldn't do it for half pay either. If that makes me a bad nurse then so be it. I guess I just can not afford to be a good nurse in some other's eyes.
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No. 11
from Q.
Old Jan 04, 2002, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by thisnurse
the
nurses who expect to be paid a decent salary are labeled as "greedy" by their OWN KIND and yet they dont see other professionals as greedy.
I think, thisnurse, that a "decent" salary is defined by different people.

To some, a "decent" salary is AT LEAST six figures.
To some, a "decent' salary is enough to have a modest home and a modest car.
To some, a "decent" salary is just enough to pay the bills.

In a small town in Wisconsin, my step mother in law makes $8/hour packing pickles at a plant. She has health coverage and can pay the bills on her small house. She clips coupons, etc. She considers her salary "pretty decent" for that area. Is she wrong?

Do you see how a "decent" salary can be interpreted diferently?
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No. 12
from thisnurse
Old Jan 05, 2002, 05:12 AM

suzy,
absolutely i can see what you are saying.
$8 might be decent for a pickle packer, but is it decent for an airline pilot?
how about a doctor?
is $8 an hour a decent wage for a police officer?
what about a paramedic?

even if you take the individual's perception of "decent" into consideration, you can logically see there is no comparison.

listen, would you agree that as a profession we sell ourselves short?
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No. 13
from thisnurse
Old Jan 05, 2002, 05:14 AM

i do my job for the money. i do it well because i care.
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No. 14
from LilgirlRN
Old Jan 05, 2002, 05:17 AM

WELL SAID!!
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No. 15
from nurs4kids
Old Jan 05, 2002, 07:01 AM

Well, I damn sure wouldn't leave my kids every evening and go work for free. So, I guess it IS the money that brings me here. Did money bring me into this profession?? lol, I think not.
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No. 16
from Q.
Old Jan 05, 2002, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by thisnurse

listen, would you agree that as a profession we sell ourselves short?
I agree wholeheartedly. I think some people misunderstand me when we are talking about nurse wages.

My problem with our wages is not getting compensated for experience, knowledge, and education. All these things come with time on the floor and/or schooling. My fear is that, even if we were able to command $40/hour starting, that wage will remain constant, like it always has, while the new grad pay will be bumped up. Or, our raises will be paltry like they usually are..1% for example. Not even the cost of living!

A 15 year veteran nurse in L&D is now making LESS than the new grads she is training. THAT is shameful. So...while wages have definitely rose around here, the experienced nurses aren't seeing it.

This problem doesn't exist just in nursing though; my husband hired a man, without a degree, who is making more than my husband. This man REPORTS to my husband! There are inequities all over the place. It could be as widespread as nursing, and it could NOT be.

Also, in taking a hard look at myself: I am an RN with a BSN with 4 years experience in a high risk L&D floor, and when I work with this nurse Dawn who I totally respect clinically, who has been a nurse for 10 years and knows her stuff, compared to her, I don't see myself being worth $40/hour just yet . I have a long ways to go.
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No. 17
from kaycee
Old Jan 05, 2002, 12:51 PM

I understand where your coming from Susy K. I agree 100% with what your are saying. I work with nurses that have half the experience I have and they make as much or more. I think the starting pay for nurses in most area's is pretty good but there is nothing to look forward to once you in it for a while. You just stagnate with 1-2% raises every year. Nobody especially hospitals reward nurses for the experience or education, and I think $22./hr after almost 27yrs, having the title of nurse clinician and being in charge is a slap in the face. Especially since nurses with 10yrs are making 20 and they are bring in new grads at 18/hr.
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No. 18
from thisnurse
Old Jan 05, 2002, 07:54 PM

and im saying the same thing. im not talking about new grads. of course a higher starting wage is an attempt to lure new grads into the hospitals. again...retention is not addressed and that seems to be the heart of the problem.

suzy..you ARE worth 40 bucks an hour not just to the patients but to the hospital as well.
for the patient:
after those years of experience you have seen most everything i would assume. you are confident and less likely to make a mistake. if i were having a complicated delivery i would much rather have YOU as my nurse than a new grad OR say a med/surg nurse like me, who is NOT experienced with deliveries.

so you are a SPECIALTY NURSE WITH EXPERIENCE..if i had to pay you out of my pocket 40 bucks an hour to care for me and my baby i would have no problem with that. i pay my primary that to look at a blood test.

from the hospital vantage point:
you have been there three years. you know the ropes. you know how the hospital works. you know the personell. you know what to do and when to do it. again...you are a SPECIALTY NURSE WITH EXPERIENCE AT THAT HOSPITAL...you are so much more likely to comply with the customer service they are constantly pushing down our throats.
consider this:
we have just started a flexible scheduling program where i work. nurses with 2 years experience are eligable. thats one less year than you. they are paid 36 bucks an hour. in other words...if you came to our hospital, even tho you are not a med/surg nurse...they would pay YOU $36 an hour.
our hospital feels you are worth it...why dont you?


and lets consider the ICU nurses..ill use burn/trauma as an example since i was pulled there a few days ago.

you know what burns are like. there are few other injuries like a burn. so many of the patients on that unit are vented. so you have experienced nurses that know how to care for these critically ill patients to keep them alive AND they know how to do the treatments. consider that they also interact with the families AND can recognize when things are going bad MUCH faster than any of us can..so essentially, they are the eyes and ears of the docs. ive seen them tell the DOCS what needs done because they have experience the docs dont.

do you think $40 is a fair wage for them?
i dont.
there are SOME nurses who DESERVE 80 grand a year. they are among them. of course, like you, i am basing this on specialty and experience.

suzy...dont sell yourself short. in the big scheme of things, and comparing what you do to other professions (and yes you have to) you are worth at least $40 an hour. dont forget, medicine is big business. even at that rate, how big of a piece of hospital pie is it?

now march on in there sistah and DEMAND a raise...lol
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No. 19
from Q.
Old Jan 06, 2002, 08:40 PM

ThisNurse:

Oddly enough, I see what you are saying. But I guess when I compare myself to nurses to have even more experience than me, I have a problem accepting $40/hour because I feel that those nurses should get that. I guess...I don't know where to draw the line.

Can you really put a price on what a nurse knows? I agree with what you said: some nurses are worth $18/hr, some are worth $40/hr. I think with our profession it's hard to actually quantify our skills, especially with nursing being as diverse educationally as it is. Perhaps a good starting point is to decide on and have one point of entry into the profession - say, an ADN. (now that's a whole 'nother argument, I guess!)

The money thing bothers me sometimes, and sometimes it doesn't. When I hang around our friends who are all in different professions, I hear them talk about inequities in pay all the time. Nursing is not alone in that regard. I also then hear of my neighbor who has an Associate's Degree in Police Science and is a "Business Director" at a car dealership. The man makes at least $120,000/annual. That blows my mind, as I work day in and day out, trying to pay off my 10 year undergrad student loan, while also attempting to pay for grad school out of pocket on my crappy pay. But, admitedly, I like my hours at the clinic and feel that this is perfect job in which to go to grad school at the same time. I work day shift and have holidays off. It's a very pleasant work environment. Is it a trade-off? You bet it is. Should I have to make those decisions: better pay or better hours? No. Do other professions? Sure. Am I alone? Definitely not.

I don't know what the answer is. Maybe I am basing my opinion on what I should get paid according to the current nursing pay scale (and not including agency, travelers, etc) - but I just have a hard time accepting $40/hour - straight time - for what I do. Maybe my perception is off. I guess I just feel - too - inexperienced. And maybe that is a safe assessment of myself.

ThisNurse, thank you for the complimentary post. It's always nice to have discussions with someone who can articulate their opinions, and also do it nicely.
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