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Health Care: The Ticking Time Bomb



Would you support a public health care option?
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No. 210
from Desert Man
Old Jul 28, 2009, 04:35 PM

Default Re: Health Care: The Ticking Time Bomb
Re-define the health care process. Socialise the entire system. The government needs to fund healthcare in this country. Dispense with medicare and the healthcare insurance companies. Stop spending so much on war and international aid and divert the money to health care. Look after your own people at home first! It's a sad indictment when the richest nation on Earth does not look after the very people that make it rich! Americans are expected to fight and die for their country, so what reponsibility does their country have towards them?
A fit nation, leads to a greater GNP, essentially a wealthier country. If people are well, they can work. And what about the pensioners? Should they struggle with healthcare bills in their old age? Isn't America embarrassed by the superior treatment of the elderly in many Western European nations?
Why are so many homeless actually mentally ill? Could it be because there weren't adequately funded support systems in place to house them and look after them? Maybe these people aren't important enough - because they're not productive. Have we lost our humanity - are some people no longer worth looking after?
The notion of socialised healthcare is mis-represented by images of perverted communist values for many in the States. Yet socialised healthcare is alive and well in many modern western capitalist societies. Any of these countries are not as affluent as the US, yet often burdened, they continue to support their socialised healthcare systems for the benefit of their citizens.
There are critics of socialised healthcare in the US. As they pick apart the flaws in these systems around the world, they are seeking to preserve the present status-quo of selection and exclusion in this country.
They do not, of course, focus on the benefits of free health care for the citizens of these countries. This may well raise questions like 'well what are we doing for our citizens'? And, 'why aren't we doing more'?
It's about time the government realistically re-evaluated health care in this country and really decided to leave no-one out.
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No. 211
from K98
Old Jul 28, 2009, 09:30 PM

Default Re: Health Care: The Ticking Time Bomb
Originally Posted by Desert Man View Post
Re-define the health care process. Socialise the entire system. The government needs to fund healthcare in this country. Dispense with medicare and the healthcare insurance companies. Stop spending so much on war and international aid and divert the money to health care. Look after your own people at home first! It's a sad indictment when the richest nation on Earth does not look after the very people that make it rich! Americans are expected to fight and die for their country, so what reponsibility does their country have towards them?
A fit nation, leads to a greater GNP, essentially a wealthier country. If people are well, they can work. And what about the pensioners? Should they struggle with healthcare bills in their old age? Isn't America embarrassed by the superior treatment of the elderly in many Western European nations?
Why are so many homeless actually mentally ill? Could it be because there weren't adequately funded support systems in place to house them and look after them? Maybe these people aren't important enough - because they're not productive. Have we lost our humanity - are some people no longer worth looking after?
The notion of socialised healthcare is mis-represented by images of perverted communist values for many in the States. Yet socialised healthcare is alive and well in many modern western capitalist societies. Any of these countries are not as affluent as the US, yet often burdened, they continue to support their socialised healthcare systems for the benefit of their citizens.
There are critics of socialised healthcare in the US. As they pick apart the flaws in these systems around the world, they are seeking to preserve the present status-quo of selection and exclusion in this country.
They do not, of course, focus on the benefits of free health care for the citizens of these countries. This may well raise questions like 'well what are we doing for our citizens'? And, 'why aren't we doing more'?
It's about time the government realistically re-evaluated health care in this country and really decided to leave no-one out.
Free? As in nobody pays for it? Please elaborate, I'm all ears (so to speak).
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No. 212
from belgarion
Old Jul 28, 2009, 10:48 PM

Default Re: Health Care: The Ticking Time Bomb
If someone has figured out how to provide FREE health care we need to get that person working on free energy, free housing, free transportation, free food, free Ivy League education, free clothing, and free anything else you can think of.
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No. 213
Old Jul 28, 2009, 11:34 PM

Default Re: Health Care: The Ticking Time Bomb
I am a recent grad, fresh out of nursing school and I just happened to stumble across this forum while trying to find information to help study for NCLEX. I do not identify with republicans or democrats so when reading this try not to view it as biased one way or another. Frankly I am appalled at the people on this forum who seem to only have their selfish views in mind. I have read several pages of posts and within the debate I sense a certain theme in a portion of peoples posts....that healthcare is not a right, some individuals that only seem to have their personal interests in mind, and so on. It is extremely disappointing to find a forum with these themes on a website specifically for nurses. Where did the sense of doing good, and helping those that need assistance, of trying to better another person's life. These same principles should be applied to the population as a whole. What makes the life of a person with a salary of $250,000 any more valuable of a life of someone that makes $10,000 with several kids. And I believe the constitution does make an attempt at promoting general health. I could go on and on, but honestly I can't find the words to continue. I know the real world isn't like the textbook and ideals of nursing school, but we all should at least attempt to make those ideals real. A public health option is just trying to better a health system that has been beset with greed, and misguided principles. The government is intervening because it has to. At this point the system is unsustainable and hopefully a government run option will keep the rest honest.

I understand everyone wants to look out for themselves and their families first, but that does not mean deserting everyone else is an acceptable answer.
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No. 214
from mwboswell
Old Jul 28, 2009, 11:54 PM

Default Re: Health Care: The Ticking Time Bomb
Originally Posted by lamazeteacher View Post
Loosen your grip on the automatic thoughts that someone might take advantage of you and what you'd like for yourself. This claim that you'd have to give something up when a healthcare plan that preserves and sanctifies life and health for all Americans is passed, is ridiculous; and it is designed to make it seem undesirable.

Let's go to work, and get these changes passed, everyone!!!!

How President Obama can smile and see the changes delayed, I don't know. He and many volunteers like me are determined to see them go through as soon as possible
It's not that "someone" might take advantage of me, it's that I don't want the govt. to take advantage of me.
Other than public health - I see the govt. having no place in healthcare.

Also I am still confused as to why supporters of this "healthcare reform" think that a govt. that is BROKE and in debt up to it's ears, can EVER bankroll this healthcare reform.

It's not the govt.'s responsibility to fix the things that the: (1) insurance companies (2) hospitals (3) pharmaceuticial industry (4) medical research communities have screwed up.

Quite frankly, based on the govt's finiancial history and track record - I do not TRUST my govt to run this nor do I want to rack up more debt!
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No. 215
from mwboswell
Old Jul 28, 2009, 11:58 PM

Default Re: Health Care: The Ticking Time Bomb
Originally Posted by byebyeschool View Post
. The government is intervening because it has to. At this point the system is unsustainable and hopefully a government run option will keep the rest honest.

I understand everyone wants to look out for themselves and their families first, but that does not mean deserting everyone else is an acceptable answer.
Bottom line:
-The US govt is BROKE and has largely gotten that way due to it's own mis-management (Democrat AND Republican). I do not trust my govt. to run this thing appropriately. The US Govt. simply cannot manage finances effectively. It is a poor choice for this govt. to step into the ring and end up spending more money and becoming more broke.
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No. 216
Old Jul 29, 2009, 12:13 AM
Updated Jul 29, 2009 at 12:53 AM by lamazeteacher

Default Re: Health Care: The Ticking Time Bomb
"The government is intervening because it has to. At this point the system is unsustainable and hopefully a government run option will keep the rest honest.

I understand everyone wants to look out for themselves and their families first, but that does not mean deserting everyone else is an acceptable answer."

Quote from Desert Man's Post # 213

I have been shocked, too with some attitudes portrayed here in regard to Health Care Revisions. I am a Democrat/liberal, and very concerned about the issues in health care that developed because of doctors'. insurance and pharmaceutical companies' greed.

I can only imagine that some nurses listen to doctors' attitudes too much, as physicians ponder their million dollar /year incomes and fret about large awards given plaintiffs who sue doctors and win; and the chances that they'll not be able to continue merrily along that path.

It's heartening to hear a new grad take up the flag for mercy on the deprived. God bless you!!

President Obama is determined to stop the gross practises of overcharging, health care fraud, and discrimination by insurance companies. The fact that politicians can determine policy of the involved entities in health care reform, after taking campaign contributions from them, is disgusting. They should recuse themselves and abstain from voting on issues in which companies that contributed to their election campaign are involved.
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No. 217
Old Jul 29, 2009, 12:50 AM

Default Re: Health Care: The Ticking Time Bomb
Originally Posted by K98 View Post
Free? As in nobody pays for it? Please elaborate, I'm all ears (so to speak).
I will.

Of course it must be compensated, by streamlining the system and so lowering costs, thereby saving billions/trillions of dollars. Taxing those who have been able to immensely increase their earnings through the opportunities in this country, should "pay it forward", as they'll surely never miss the money. Taxation is already based on incomes, so this is no diversion from current methods.

Talk about fat in anything! The earnings of insurance companies feeding off ever increasing premiums, due in part to ever increasing billing of physicians and hospitals, higher costs of materials, etc. No one with clout has been negotiating to lower the prices, as every other civilized country has done, to maintain their universal health care systems.

It's high time someone called a halt to it, in the USA! We've been the laughing stock of the civilized world, who think us fools for not ensuring that our country's workers, children, unlucky unemployed, and aging population lack appropriate health care; and for allowing physicians to run roughshod over patients, using them as milk cows (or whatever that phrase is).

No wonder the populace here doesn't trust their doctors, after being stripped to the bone financially by them, and then being criticized for non compliance, when medications ordered have become unreachable due to their high prices!!!! Many doctors have been caught by patients recognizing that surgical procedures were done in the doctors' own interests, disregarding theirs. I've worn an elastic knee band for 6 years, that stopped my knee pain as well as the knee replacement surgery for which I'd been booked, might have. I found out that it had been scheduled close to the orthopedic surgeon's retirement, and cancelled that. We've all seen unnecessary procedures done, and the cost of them....... that includes the suffering they incur.

Let's start looking more clearly, less fearfully, and embrace good changes being made, without the distrust our government doesn't deserve. At the AARP Town Hall gathering with President Obama today, a comment was read from an enraged woman who despaired "socialized" medicine and all those "evils" like government running things (as it should). She closed by saying, ".........and don't mess with my (government run) Medicare!!!" Well, Medicare will be included with everyone's health care, including prescriptions, so that money can be saved according to the guidelines being proposed. By the way, our President said that when Medicare was introduced there were the very same objections to it, just as vehemently said, as there are today.

I'm on Medicare, and happy that fraudulent practises will be stopped and that others who have previously been denied health care insurance due to being of "childbearing age", having pre-existing conditions, and aging (as we all should), will have it, without unrealistic caps on expenses they incur. I was once offered health insurance by an employer for whom I worked part time for 32 hours/week, in 2004 at a price of $325./month. I asked what the cap was, and the director of that HH agency became very annoyed. "I don't know", she said, "but you can call the head office to find out". I did that and found out that the cap was $1,350. yearly.
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No. 218
from K98
Old Jul 29, 2009, 09:03 PM

Default Re: Health Care: The Ticking Time Bomb
Originally Posted by lamazeteacher View Post
I will.

Of course it must be compensated, by streamlining the system and so lowering costs, thereby saving billions/trillions of dollars. Taxing those who have been able to immensely increase their earnings through the opportunities in this country, should "pay it forward", as they'll surely never miss the money. Taxation is already based on incomes, so this is no diversion from current methods.

Talk about fat in anything! The earnings of insurance companies feeding off ever increasing premiums, due in part to ever increasing billing of physicians and hospitals, higher costs of materials, etc. No one with clout has been negotiating to lower the prices, as every other civilized country has done, to maintain their universal health care systems.

It's high time someone called a halt to it, in the USA! We've been the laughing stock of the civilized world, who think us fools for not ensuring that our country's workers, children, unlucky unemployed, and aging population lack appropriate health care; and for allowing physicians to run roughshod over patients, using them as milk cows (or whatever that phrase is).

No wonder the populace here doesn't trust their doctors, after being stripped to the bone financially by them, and then being criticized for non compliance, when medications ordered have become unreachable due to their high prices!!!! Many doctors have been caught by patients recognizing that surgical procedures were done in the doctors' own interests, disregarding theirs. I've worn an elastic knee band for 6 years, that stopped my knee pain as well as the knee replacement surgery for which I'd been booked, might have. I found out that it had been scheduled close to the orthopedic surgeon's retirement, and cancelled that. We've all seen unnecessary procedures done, and the cost of them....... that includes the suffering they incur.

Let's start looking more clearly, less fearfully, and embrace good changes being made, without the distrust our government doesn't deserve. At the AARP Town Hall gathering with President Obama today, a comment was read from an enraged woman who despaired "socialized" medicine and all those "evils" like government running things (as it should). She closed by saying, ".........and don't mess with my (government run) Medicare!!!" Well, Medicare will be included with everyone's health care, including prescriptions, so that money can be saved according to the guidelines being proposed. By the way, our President said that when Medicare was introduced there were the very same objections to it, just as vehemently said, as there are today.

I'm on Medicare, and happy that fraudulent practises will be stopped and that others who have previously been denied health care insurance due to being of "childbearing age", having pre-existing conditions, and aging (as we all should), will have it, without unrealistic caps on expenses they incur. I was once offered health insurance by an employer for whom I worked part time for 32 hours/week, in 2004 at a price of $325./month. I asked what the cap was, and the director of that HH agency became very annoyed. "I don't know", she said, "but you can call the head office to find out". I did that and found out that the cap was $1,350. yearly.
After working for the government for 25 years, I can say without hesitation that government has NEVER cut fat or "streamlined" anything. Ever hear of the thousand dollar hammer or the six hundred dollar toilet seat? How about Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac? Medicare and Social Security are both headed into the toilet with no fix in sight, and Obamba wants to conjure up yet another HUGE unfunded bureaucracy to drain our resources. I am perfectly satisfied with my health care as it is. It has given my family excellent care whenever they have needed it, and is easily affordable on the paltry salary of an RN. My son was born with a serious birth defect which was covered in full (he is now a healthy adult). There are a number of idiots in congress that are proposing yet another tax, this one on MY benefits paid for with my hard work. As for the new grad that thinks that nursing/life is all unicorns, rainbows, and puppy dogs, your education has just begun sister (brother). Best of luck to you .
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No. 219
from ssing45
Old Jul 29, 2009, 09:50 PM

Default Re: Health Care: The Ticking Time Bomb
Originally Posted by tewdles View Post
welfare–noun - the good fortune, health, happiness, prosperity, etc., of a person, group, or organization; well-being

I would respectfully submit that our constitution does address this "right"
LOL, so what do we do about all the unhappy people, force them to take valium? What about those with who lose in Vegas, they certainly do not have good fortune. I say they should get all of their money back double, on me and my tax dollar.

Since you etc.'ed some of the words in your definition of welfare I have posted the definition again. Welfare- well-being, health, comfort, security, safety, protection, prosperity, success, fortune; interest, good.

Do you really think that taxpayers should pay for the government to provide all of these things or only the ones you select? Can the government assure prosperity for all? On whose dime?

The constitution specifically states "general welfare" not the welfare of each and every person. So, knowing that only 18% of the population is without healthcare coverage, and knowing that only about 14% of those are naturalized citizens (from National Coalition on Health Care), I offer that implimenting the proposed healthcare initiatives negatively affects the prosperity of many more people than it helps healthwise. Since the constitution allows for the "general welfare" of the people not the specific welfare of the minority, this proposal is unconstitutional.

Thomas Jefferson writing on the portion of the constitution to which you refer.
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/found...a1_8_1s25.html

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