gender as a qualification

Renee, He's posting from Oman, one of the Gulf States near Kuwait. As to "Do as the Romans do" A big problem with Americans abroad is that you export your culture with you! Mc Donalds, Disney, Burger King, Gap, Coca Cola, Pepsi, etc. etc. etc.
ps. That's just in the main street of my small town in England!

Yeah, I noticed the interesting assumption that a person posting on an American site is necessarily living in America... Hmm...

Salmi, your comments are appreciated, despite being different to the American/Western norm, and different to my own beliefs. Thank you for adding spice to the discussion.

I personally would be outraged if I heard that any of my male nurse friends were denied even the right to apply for a job in L&D or OB/GYN as it appears Mark was. Australian nursing is quite unionised, so the hospital would probably be firmly encouraged to at least interview the applicant.

I want nurses who care about their job and their patients in the L&D when I'm having mine. I've got a sneaky suspicion that I will be too busy to care whether the nurse has the same anatomy as me. If the nurse isn't self-conscious, I doubt that my own embarassment would last long in the post-partum phase. The training is the same, and a male usually enters nursing because he WANTS to, not because he couldn't think of anything else to do (as several of my female classmates in undergrad did). This alone suggests that they have an edge on many nurses I've worked with.

P.S. I don't believe in shared toilets, either. Men may be able to nurse in L&D or anywhere else they want, but they can't get all their pee in the bowl...

I have been reading posts to this thread for about a week. Several of the posts refer to hiring the best qualified person to work in the position. This statement, at it's face value" sounds noble and worthy. It does not address the fact that in order to become experienced one needs to become employed before they can gain the experience to become "the best qualified individual" to perform the job!

I have experienced this "catch 22" numerous times in my nursing job searches. Every employer wants "the best and the brightest" and "the most experienced" to fill an "open position." I find it very hard to overcome the fact that I do not have the 1+ years experience in the particular specialty needed to be considered as a contending candidate for a position.

How do I become a "highly qualified, best and brightest, experienced candidate" when I am not given the opportunity to be trained. How can I work in the field without being hired?

Being a "Male nurse" seems to have it's advantages to some. I have never seen any of these alleged advantages. Most of the time I find myself in competition with "female nurses" who have been trained by a facility in a specialty like OB.

So when the staffing company calls me to ask what my specialty is I tell them that I am a Licensed, Professional, Registered Nurse ( that is what my state issued license to "pratice nursing" says); I have worked in Psyc, Med Surg, Tele, Stepdown, UR, Endo, PACU, OR, and other areas. So what is my specialty?

As for the rest room contraversey, I believe all places where a toilet is avaliable should allow either sex into the first avaliable stall. I find it quite strange that public places find it so necessary to denote a gender at the entrance to a rest room.

When a person has to answer the call of nature, or a nurse has the time to go, there should be no need to traverse any distance farther than the first avaliable bowl.

Returning to the original question of this post - It is my belief that a "male nurse" (aka Nurse), should be allowed to, able to, encouraged to, trained to and accepted in any and all positions that require a "RN" to perform them.

If you do not share my view then try substituting the word black ( or african american as some prefer to be called) or Jewish, or Christian, or Muslem, or the word female before as the quantifier. Be sure to make the quantifying excluder applicable to yourself. Then perhaps you can see just how unfair the pratice of sexual discrimination in Nursing is to men and " Male Nurses."

I can only speak for myself, and obviously Stargazer who noticed that the poster was from Oman, but I don't assume that everyone is from America because this is an American site. That's like assuming everyone is from Minnesota because that is where the site administrator lives.

No logic.

Hi guys, I had my BSN in USA but I’m in my country now.
I don’t know how to explain it. If I will explain, “why males should not work in delivery areas” without considering my culture and Islamic teachings, then I will have to follow the jungle rule to explain it. I’m sure that the disadvantages of allowing male nurses to work in delivery areas will be far more than the advantages even if we used the jungle rule.
We gave the woman all rights. The Qu’ran states that God has endowed human beings with dignity. This dignity extends to us all, regardless of race, status, or gender. Woman’s dignity is not to expose her body to any other male except her husband. The Muslim women should not set alone with any male stranger. The people who are not considered strangers to the women are only husband, brother, father, son and uncle. No need to explain the reason for that just think about it and you will come to know. “to avoid…………………….
Mr./Ms. Renee Williams, if you are “really” interested to know about my religion(culture) click on the link below which contains articles written by American. http://www.islamfortoday.com/michaelwolfe.htm



I'm not the only one who voted against, where is the other person come on dude help me....
salmi

Hi Salmi:

I see your point as I've had experience with Muslims who do not allow any males in the room during her stay; be it a tech, housekeeper, resident or physician. We gladly honor that request - except in emergencies and even under those circumstances, the patients have suffered an emotional trauma, if you will, as a result. The patient had a hard time facing her husband and family knowing a male OB/GYN treated her - even if it meant saving the life of her and her fetus.

As Americans, we don't understand it but we honor it as much as possible. But I think NOT allowing males to work in that field is taking it a bit far. As long as there are females that a patient can request, what is the difference? But again, it is this principle that America was founded on: freedom.

WHOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAA!!! Much clarification is needed here in regards to my last comments to Salmi. First of all, Salmi, please accept my sincere apology for assuming you lived in America. I hadn't a clue where Oman was. Please, I did not intend to offend you here. and NO, I do NOT assume every poster on this site is living in America. I DO WELCOME the responses and diversity of beliefs, absolutely. If I came across as not being 'open', I ask for you all to forgive me. I enjoy learning about different cultures, etc. I'm all for mankind breeching the gap between cultures so that we come to a better understanding of one another. Peace and love can only be shared between cultures when we are accepting of one another's upbringing. My own family is much too diversified in culture and various ethnic groups for me not to care about ALL mankind.


donmurray and bungies,

First, donmurray, thank you for being the one to share with me where Oman is from. I truly did not know...my mistake for not asking where Oman was. Shows you how little I know about that region of our world. I never was good in history or geography, so thanks again for the much needed lesson on geography.

Also, donmurray and bungies,

I have lived in Germany as a military spouse for three years. I loved the country. I even took a class in German so I could learn some of the language because I know Germans appreciated it when my husband and I greeted them initially in their own language. I found the German people in Augsburg to be extremely friendly, and the people in Frankfurt to be "less friendly".

While living abroad, my husband and I ate at every foreign restaurant we could so that we could get a taste of the diversity of food in Europe. We ate Italian, Greek, German, Oriential, and on occasion, a burger from McDonalds. We went on volksmarches with the German people so we could be with them and learn from them. We tried our best to become as German as we could during our three year stay.

When you say that Americans bring their culture with them when they come overseas, it is not true of all Americans. Many Americans do try and "live as the Romans do" when they travel to a country other than our own. When you mention all the American food companies located in your area, you are not referring to "all Americans", but to American businesses that expand their services abroad as well as at home. Do NOT judge all Americans as only wanting to remain American even away from home just because many American businesses are located where you live. They are there for a profit just like any other business from any other country.

We would all do well not to judge one another based on where we live. I have already made my apology to Salmi for not being more aware of "where" Oman is before I made my comments to him about him living in America where he does not even live. So, I am going to do everything in my power to sustain from passing judgement, and be more open and receptive to learning about places I'm totally unfamiliar with.

If you'll recall, I did ask Salmi to share with us about his beliefs because I sincerely want to learn of them. Salmi, thank you for the website, and I will definitely go there and read up on your culture. Thanks for sharing that with me. Now, I understand why you believe men should not be in L&D because it is a cultural thing for you. I am not, nor will I, judge you on that belief because that is the way you were raised to believe. I acknowledge your beliefs. I do validate you as a very worthy human being and a wonderful nurse in your country. Just as I would have a difficult time coming to Oman to work as a nurse with my western teaching, you would probably have a difficult time coming to America and working as a nurse with your cultural teachings about separation of men and women when they are not family kin, especially when male nurses in our country do work with female patients.

I love working with male nurses. Some of the best nurses and nurse managers that I have ever worked with are male.

As for sharing a bathroom with men? I would not!

I sure hope this long message clears up any misunderstanding that was relayed in my post. I certainly am not here to offend anyone, but to learn all I can from each person who post here, whether you are from America or not. I LOVE THE FACT THAT YOU ARE HERE SHARING WITH US! Thank you all for your understanding and acceptance of my sincere apology.

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That's fine, Renee; I didn't mean to insult you either.
The comment to Salmi about welcoming his perspective wasn't meant to be pointed, or a dig at you; it was just that if everyone was against me I'd arc up and/or feel like it wasn't worth posting here anymore.
You possibly don't feel like that, Salmi, but I've been enjoying the post, and it's good to have a different perspective to bring out deeper thought about why we believe what we do. It's hard to try to step outside of our own cultural perspective to examine what we're trying to say. There are enough Western women who would prefer a female L&D nurse - I just don't happen to be one of them.

Norbert [Sorry, I originally typed 'Don' here - too many late shifts], I'm truly sorry that you've been shown that kind of prejudice by people who don't appreciate good work, too. Makes me steamed to think about it.

Apologies here too Renee, that was a wild stereotyping generalisation

Thank you bungies and donmurray for your acceptance of my apologies. I also sent Salmi a private email message to personally apologize to him for my ignorance in not knowing where Oman was. Now that I know, I can understand him so much better.

I, too, am enjoying this post a great deal and certainly would not want to isolate anyone from sharing from their heart and their own cultural upbringing. Afterall, this is one way of many that we can learn from those who live around the globe from us that we may never get a chance to meet, or visit their country. The diversity of people here helps me to envision what life is like for others where they live in the culture they were raised in and why they hold the beliefs that they do. THIS post IS educational for me! Thanks to all of you for your contributions on this subject. I'm learning, too!

Also, I did click on to the website that Salmi mentioned in his post here (www.islamfortoday.com/michaelwolfe.htm) and found it to be very insightful and educational. I read quite a few articles listed there. I highly recommend that website for those of you who may be curious about learning or grasping a better understanding of Salmi's culture and religious beliefs. Thanks, Salmi, for telling us about it!

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