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Blurred Boundaries: Should we eliminate the distinction between RNs and LPNs?



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No. 30
from Seishiro
Old Jan 20, 2009, 09:14 PM

Default Re: Blurred Boundaries: Should we eliminate the distinction between RNs and LPNs?
Just because you have a supervisor to report to, isn't meant to imply that they have to hold your hand. You're still a professional. I'm sorry if I made any offense, it wasn't intended.
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No. 31
Old Jan 20, 2009, 09:18 PM

Default Re: Blurred Boundaries: Should we eliminate the distinction between RNs and LPNs?
The LAW says that LPNs are to work under the supervision of an RN. To say you as an LPN "don't need a chaperone" is a bit much. No the RN doesn't need to be a shadow and follow and watch everything you do but the LAW says the LPN is not to function independantly. I think the point is being missed that the scope of practice set for each credentialled person be LPN, RN, NP or MD are legal boundries for which one can be penalized legally for practicing outside these set limits. There are a lot of things we might be CAPABLE of doing but if those things don't fall within scope then we are practicing outside our legal scope of practice and will be penalized......just because someone may be doing just this does not make it an less illegal and that person is risking losing his or her license and potentially criminal charges.
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No. 32
Old Jan 20, 2009, 09:32 PM
Updated Jan 21, 2009 at 09:57 AM by Elvish

Default Re: Blurred Boundaries: Should we eliminate the distinction between RNs and LPNs?
there are many things i can do independently of an RN. please remember i have a license too.

i am not going to be in trouble for changing my patient's diapers by myself. or giving them a g-tube feeding by myself. or starting an IV by myself. or check my patient's vital signs by myself.

the north carolina BON says an RN has to make my assignment for me. there are things i must report to my supervisor and things my supervisor must do for me that are out of my scope, unless i am working in my paramedic capacity outside of the hospital. i have the nurse practice act in my clipboard, actually. i know the rules.

but i have my very own scope that i can do, too.
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No. 33
from laketrash
Old Jan 21, 2009, 02:23 AM

Default Re: Blurred Boundaries: Should we eliminate the distinction between RNs and LPNs?
I remember when team nsg {which I thought was great because it made the best use of all our knowledge and talents} changed to primary nsg and it was pretty bad.Our floor might have TURP going along with another pt with a dopeamine drip, and a pt just back from a total hip replacement and the LPNS were lost in doing neurochecks etc. They came {thank God} and asked for help but it was really unfair to expect them to take on a RN job. With that said , it was also hard for us RNS because we were so used to the hands on care the lpns provided such as dsg changes etc,
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No. 34
from patrick1rn
Old Jan 21, 2009, 03:16 AM

Default Re: Blurred Boundaries: Should we eliminate the distinction between RNs and LPNs?
Originally Posted by towntalker View Post
no, not at this point, i believe that we should encourage the further education of the lpns but making money available for tutuition and by making loans for expenses during school available
the lpn schools now in exsistance could further the education into the rn field but as things stand now there is a definitive difference in the functions of the rn and the lpn
the lpn who advances to the rn field should be trained to the point that she feels secure in her knowledge
i think that there should be a fast track and that nursing schools should give a preference to lpns who are seeking to return to school over new high school grads or those making a career change..the knowledge gained in the schooling and work experience of the lpn is of great value to the health industry
So your saying that taxpayers should have to pay the tuition of LPNs over traditional students ? What makes them more special ? I dont see the blurred boundry either. I have to disagree with the fast track option also. The LPN to RN programs currently in place already cover that.

Some people complain about the non nursing classes such as history, arts, chemistry, etc that RNs have to take in either the ASN or BSN program. A college degree is not about just learning technical skills for one particular occupation. The humanities are required, because we are human, these classes help open other parts of the mind, explore other ideas, much like taking required algebra classes.

I will be honest, LPNs studentsdont study as long or as intense as RN students. The cirriculum is different. Not insulting any LPN either. But I get a little irritated when an LPN tries to compare my classes that I have taken to the 15 month LPN program and then think they understand as much about the needs of a patient. So, no I dont see a blurred boundry, i see it as a oppurtunity for LPNs to progress to RNs
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No. 35
Old Jan 21, 2009, 09:11 AM
Updated Jan 21, 2009 at 10:07 AM by Elvish

Default Re: Blurred Boundaries: Should we eliminate the distinction between RNs and LPNs?
I have to be honest I have only worked in 2 jobs where they even hired LPNs ....LTC and on a medical floor.
In psych-inpatient and psych ED and in L&D, they don't hire LPNs where I live. They had LPNs in the Med ED when I first started there but shortly after made them all transfer to a med/surg floor.
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No. 36
from Jules A
Old Jan 21, 2009, 10:44 AM

Default Re: Blurred Boundaries: Should we eliminate the distinction between RNs and LPNs?
Originally Posted by patrick1rn View Post
I will be honest, LPNs studentsdont study as long or as intense as RN students. The cirriculum is different. Not insulting any LPN either. But I get a little irritated when an LPN tries to compare my classes that I have taken to the 15 month LPN program and then think they understand as much about the needs of a patient. So, no I dont see a blurred boundry, i see it as a oppurtunity for LPNs to progress to RNs
Well no need to be irritated because fwiw my LPN pre-reqs were exactly the same as the RN pre-reqs. Apparently my LPN classes were comparable and in my experience as intense because I managed to join the second year RN students and in two semesters graduate in the top of my class. You are correct in that RNs have more education but it isn't all that different.
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No. 37
Old Jan 21, 2009, 10:54 AM

Default Re: Blurred Boundaries: Should we eliminate the distinction between RNs and LPNs?
Originally Posted by Jules A View Post
Well no need to be irritated because fwiw my LPN pre-reqs were exactly the same as the RN pre-reqs. Apparently my LPN classes were comparable and in my experience as intense because I managed to join the second year RN students and in two semesters graduate in the top of my class. You are correct in that RNs have more education but it isn't all that different.
mine too.

i had to have the same pre-reqs, english 1 & 2, anatomy and phys 1 & 2, computers, intermed. or college algebra, chemistry and micro. and pass the same entrance exam.

unfortunately, the waiting list for the RN program, even with an incoming 3.8 GPA on pre-reqs is like 4 years long here. so i did the LPN program and when i start my bridge i only have 4 semesters left (or the 2nd yr of an ADN program, minus traditional peds and OB).
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No. 38
Old Jan 21, 2009, 11:12 AM

Default Re: Blurred Boundaries: Should we eliminate the distinction between RNs and LPNs?
Thank you everyone for your insightful ideas and opinions.
I think where some of the confusion regarding my original question of "should we merge the LPN and RN programs" is because the roles are VERY similar where I live. I am being trained to be an LPN in Alberta, Canada.

Regarding scope differences, some of the things people have mentioned include:
- IV meds, initiating IV sites, etc
- Management positions
- Thinking critically
- Assessing clients

The LPN program in Alberta is quite extensive and thorough. On average, it takes about 3 years to complete the program.

In Alberta, IV therapy has just been added to the LPN's scope. As soon as I start working in hospitals, I will be trained on siting IV's, giving IV meds, etc. The whole shebang!

In addition, I have been trained to think critically and creatively - to think outside of the box, link symptoms to help determine our patient problems, and so on. In Alberta, LPN's are a vital part of the assessment team! We are trained to think critically and assess our patient's health status, interpret lab results, coordinate with OT, physio, specialists, radiography, research and give medications, and so on.

I am presently being trained to be in leadership and management positions. To be head nurse/charge nurse, unit manager, etc. LPN's in Canada are allowed to have management positions.
Perhaps it isn't this way in the USA yet?

So, being that the gap between the LPN and RN scope in Alberta is starting to close, this is why I propose merging them somehow.

My initial idea would be to eliminate the LPN and RN training programs all together, and begin an entirely new nursing program.
The graduates of this program would no longer be labeled with LPN or RN, but have a new title.

I propose this be done so that future generations of nurses would be considered equal to one another, practice in the same scope, and eliminate confusions re: differences between the two brands of nurse.

I also like the idea of making it easier for LPN's to bridge and become an RN.
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No. 39
Old Jan 21, 2009, 11:23 AM

Default Re: Blurred Boundaries: Should we eliminate the distinction between RNs and LPNs?
might we close this thread at this point? I am thinking we are just kind of going in circles on a topic that has been and will probably always be a touchy subject. We have established that there is a difference in the roles of these two titles depandant on the part of the country, what country, what setting, etc......
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