Your Thoughts Requested - page 3

My husband and I have been having this discussion since my DR recently found a nodule on my thyroid. What do you think or what would DR's think of a spouse requesting to be in the operating room... Read More

  1. by   rdhdnrs
    Thank you Carol for the common sense comment about customer service being taken too far!! Right, it's not WalMart; it's lives and health we're talking about. Those who don't have the expertise in the area of surgery should not be dictating surgical procedure and protocol. I'm an OB nurse and I am all for someone being there during a c-section under regional anesthesia. I don't think for a minute that any family member is prepared to see his loved one under general anesthesia.
    I think the most caring environment by far for a spouse whose mate is having surgery is in the waiting room with family and friends.
    Lisa
  2. by   CCU NRS
    Quote from weezieRN
    I'm sorry you can't understand why things are as they are. Maybe you could spend the day in the OR with another nurse and then maybe you'll understand why the rules are why they are. Also, I really think you need to understand that you aren't going to die on the OR table so there is no reason for him to be there. You are going to do just fine if they decide they need to operate. orrnlori,
    I do understand the way things are in the OR that is why I am making such a bold statement, there is room for family if they are calm cool and collected, yes sure there is a time and place for everything and I think this is the time and place, Are you GOD, no i dare say not! I have known of some cases of general surgeries like lap chole's get extremely hairy with unknown cardiac arrythmias or just even that that occurs within the first minutes of anesthesia as you i am sure can well attest. NO offense but why such a chip on your shoulder, husbands are allowed in with the delivery of a csection, do you think that is not major surgery? NOT. This is just like anywhere else in the hospital setting, if you are disorderly, can not take the stress or get ill at the site of blood or needles you shouldnt be there, but what is the harm setting at the head of the bed or in the corner somewhere just to be close by. I am sure if asked or with papers from a lawyer they would allow you in or it is something to say for the hospital and its staff. My husband is willing to sign any paper imagineable. I think it is true love and devotion to be at the side of your spouse praying in their time of need
    You did ask for advice and the general concensus is that it is a a bad idea. I won't pretend to know how scared you or your husband are but you presumably work in the medical field, I am sure you have seen and heard things in your context as a nurse that family members would not think were humerous but part of the daily stress relief in the medical field is humor to relieve stress what if you husband is in th OR and hears some remark he thinks is inappropriate, I don't know what kind of perso he is but he could conceivably become angry and what if his anger were great enough that attacked someone in the middle of your surgery and think of the possibilities or things that could go wrong ni that instance. Doctors are for good reason afraid of lawsuites and they are very aware that one wrong move can cause even an understanding person to see dollars signs. concentration on the taks at hand and a good working environment could not be possible with a stranger and in fact the spouse in th OR! You have become angry it seems and you are not getting the respnses you hoped for, I would advise you and your spouse to seek counsel on this issue and as mentioned shop araound ask doctors question check the lists in you area of dangerous docs almost always some local news channel offers someo type of list. If you are a nurse go to the recovery or the CCU/ICU and ask discreetly about which docs are the best we all know and will willingly tell anyone that asks.
  3. by   CCU NRS
    Quote from weezieRN
    thanks for the replies and i know everyone has a job to do etc and don't want the added trouble of someone else in the room but he is not the least bit squeamish, watched all my births, guts deer etc. Do people not have a heart out there...... What is the difference if someone passes away on a med/surg unit than in the OR don't you want family to be there instead of strangers, but i guess that doesn't matter because the pt won't be any of the wiser and that is my point exactly. Isn't this a "consumer oriented " industry now do what the families want to make the surveys and scores good. Why would anyone have a problem with it, if something should happen not saying it will to have someone sitting their quietly just observing. Do pts have consent forms signed for students to be in the room during a surgery, i think not, what is the difference. Just my opinions
    In this post you seem to be equating your self to a deer being gutted, you mention that DH guts Deer, do you think it would be the same for him to see you being gutted? Is he a really controlling person and insisting that you have him in the room? If he loves you so dearly then seeing you opened up and bleeding can not be a pleasant experience. As for do we not have heart I think everyone here is using their heart to attempt to tell you that sparing your DH this experience is the humane, heartfelt move!!!

    If you actually begin to die from a Thyroidectomy which I would say chances are about as slim as they get, all things considered they would bring your DH to the Recovery room where you would likely be moved to or CCU.

    As for the medical field being a consmer industry that is part of what is wrong with it today everyone wants to be catered too just as if they are buying a house or a car, think about those people that sell cars and houses many times they only show you the good side of the deal while hiding much of the less glamorous things such as interest and upkeep, here shiny new car zoom zoom zoom oh by the way here is you giant payment and your limited factory warranty.
    Last edit by CCU NRS on Apr 27, '04
  4. by   weezieRN
    ccu rn
    you have hit the nail on the head when talking about what would happen should anyone pass away in the OR everything is after the fact...... not during minutes of the incidence maybe not even hours after the fact. Do you honestly feel or think it would be better to have a stranger or the dr come out and say "Sorry but your wife suffered an unfortunate complication during surgery and has passed away, sorry" I have been reading alot about trauma pts in the er and more feelings of closure for families if they were there to witness attempts to save their loved one. I am not being defensive about what i am saying but i am just as passionate about what i think and feel as do you posters. I am familiar with the OR certainly not for everybody as is anywhere else, and no i am not comparing myself to a deer but blood and gore does not bother my husband he would even set at the head of the bed behind the draping and if necessary outside looking in the window just observing. He is willing to sign release to the hospital against any possible litigation or responsiblity the hospital or surgeon may have etc on his behalf. Why couldn't depending on how different OR are set up, why couldnt he stand in the observation rooms, or the scrub room since they usually have windows etc. Wouldn't anyone want to be with their family in times of need?
  5. by   TweetiePieRN
    Quote from weezieRN
    ccu rn
    you have hit the nail on the head when talking about what would happen should anyone pass away in the OR everything is after the fact...... not during minutes of the incidence maybe not even hours after the fact. Do you honestly feel or think it would be better to have a stranger or the dr come out and say "Sorry but your wife suffered an unfortunate complication during surgery and has passed away, sorry" I have been reading alot about trauma pts in the er and more feelings of closure for families if they were there to witness attempts to save their loved one. I am not being defensive about what i am saying but i am just as passionate about what i think and feel as do you posters. I am familiar with the OR certainly not for everybody as is anywhere else, and no i am not comparing myself to a deer but blood and gore does not bother my husband he would even set at the head of the bed behind the draping and if necessary outside looking in the window just observing. He is willing to sign release to the hospital against any possible litigation or responsiblity the hospital or surgeon may have etc on his behalf. Why couldn't depending on how different OR are set up, why couldnt he stand in the observation rooms, or the scrub room since they usually have windows etc. Wouldn't anyone want to be with their family in times of need?
    Most people would like to be with their family in their time of need, However, the ORs in the hospital I work in do not have an observation room for family. Family can sit in the waiting/recovery room.

    Weezie, most everyone on this board has mentioned that the reason for hubby to not be allowed in is due to sterile fields and infection control. Does this make logical sense to you? Hospitals are not willing to chance a bad outcome just so a family member can observe a surgery. Hospitals have to report occurences such as infection rates. Having your hubby or anyone else who is not "scrubbed up" is inviting a great chance of infection. You are an RN. I am sure you understand the big picture in relation to infection
    control.

    Remember in nursing school Maszlow's Heirarchy of needs. Safety comes before psychological issues...safety being the infection control and psychological being having hubby by yourside for comforting.
    Last edit by TweetiePieRN on Apr 27, '04
  6. by   weezieRN
    yes i certainly understand the whole bit about the sterile field and infection control but you cant tell me that a lot of infections don't stem from the OR. With the rise of infections in hospital which a good portion being nonsocomial, so what if any likliehood would there be that much more of and infection rate just my hubby being there, i have lived with him for 13 yrs i cetainly know he is not harbering any organisms or infections
  7. by   TweetiePieRN
    Quote from weezieRN
    yes i certainly understand the whole bit about the sterile field and infection control but you cant tell me that a lot of infections don't stem from the OR. With the rise of infections in hospital which a good portion being nonsocomial, so what if any likliehood would there be that much more of and infection rate just my hubby being there, i have lived with him for 13 yrs i cetainly know he is not harbering any organisms or infections
    You asked for our thoughts and you have them here. I don't want to sound rude, but this conversation has grown tiresome and I'm sure many of the previous posters would agree that it's obvious that you are totally missing the point. Good luck!
  8. by   chris_at_lucas_RN
    Maybe one more voice stating the obvious:

    Some things are clear here.

    WeezieRN is not an RN. An RN would not have posed this issue, unless it was because a patient wanted it. Even so.....

    Probably her husband isn't as concerned about being with her as she is concerned about his being with her.

    She's really looking for reassurance that what she wants is reasonable and right, so no matter how much we say about infection control and her own safety during surgery, not to mention her husband's safety and the ability for the OR staff to do their thing, she's not going to hear anything except what she wants to hear. The rest of it is going to be met with annoyance and argument.

    But this is not reasonable, nor is it right. For one, I would not be caught dead (?@!) in a hospital that would even permit an unnecessary onlooker (students being necessary due to training needs). For two, I think it's the surest way to quickly reach financial security: sue the hospital for postop complications r/t intraop exposure to pathogens, because "they shouldn't have let us do this."

    JMHO.
  9. by   LynneCRNA
    I'd just like to add that having a family member in the OR's and the surrounding area violates the confidentiality of the other patients having surgery. Walking down the halls offers glimpses into the OR's in many facilities or hearing the circulating nurse answer a page for the surgeon about Mr. X's condition. Remember HIPPA. Take control of your situation by following the suggestions of the other posters. Hand pick your OR crew, be honest and upfront about your fears, and ask for plenty of pre-op versed.
  10. by   CCU NRS
    Quote from chris_at_lucas
    Maybe one more voice stating the obvious:

    Some things are clear here.

    WeezieRN is not an RN. An RN would not have posed this issue, unless it was because a patient wanted it. Even so.....

    Probably her husband isn't as concerned about being with her as she is concerned about his being with her.

    She's really looking for reassurance that what she wants is reasonable and right, so no matter how much we say about infection control and her own safety during surgery, not to mention her husband's safety and the ability for the OR staff to do their thing, she's not going to hear anything except what she wants to hear. The rest of it is going to be met with annoyance and argument.

    But this is not reasonable, nor is it right. For one, I would not be caught dead (?@!) in a hospital that would even permit an unnecessary onlooker (students being necessary due to training needs). For two, I think it's the surest way to quickly reach financial security: sue the hospital for postop complications r/t intraop exposure to pathogens, because "they shouldn't have let us do this."

    JMHO.
    Yes you may have noticed my alluding to "if you are a nurse" and "presumably you work in the medical field" because I get this same feeling that a good RN would not be having as much difficulty with any or all of the reasons listed to NOT have her DH in the OR!

    I think you are on the money here Chris and you have Identified the problem!

    A look at her bio shows that she is a CNA, RN student grad may 2004, so she may or may not be but I think if she is a student she still has a lot to learn.
    Last edit by CCU NRS on Apr 28, '04
  11. by   CIRQL8
    I finally get it!! DH is Dear Husband!! (i think!?)


    P.S. I'm new at this, don't know most of the lingo/jargon.

    Weezie - lots of good advice posted here. Perhaps we should agree to disagree.
    None-the-less, right or wrong, no OR will let family observe the surgery.

    I've circulated for surgoens and their wives/husbands as my patients, and they do not enter the OR.

    I will say one incident that I don't agree with - one surgeon performed surgery on his own wife. That's the only thing that I have experienced even closely related to our subject matter.
  12. by   orrnlori
    Quote from chris_at_lucas
    Maybe one more voice stating the obvious:

    Some things are clear here.

    WeezieRN is not an RN. An RN would not have posed this issue, unless it was because a patient wanted it. Even so.....

    Probably her husband isn't as concerned about being with her as she is concerned about his being with her.

    She's really looking for reassurance that what she wants is reasonable and right, so no matter how much we say about infection control and her own safety during surgery, not to mention her husband's safety and the ability for the OR staff to do their thing, she's not going to hear anything except what she wants to hear. The rest of it is going to be met with annoyance and argument.

    But this is not reasonable, nor is it right. For one, I would not be caught dead (?@!) in a hospital that would even permit an unnecessary onlooker (students being necessary due to training needs). For two, I think it's the surest way to quickly reach financial security: sue the hospital for postop complications r/t intraop exposure to pathogens, because "they shouldn't have let us do this."

    JMHO.
    I believe you all are incorrect. Weezie is an RN. After I received the unambiguous personal remarks that were so out of character for one RN to another (well, now that I think of it, it's pretty common, RN v RN), and having the day off work to study, I went back and looked at Weezie's other posts. If she is not a nurse, she's doing an excellent job of describing the job, apparently graduated last year and has just moved from med/surg to OB. ( I can't imagine anyone being so bored with their lives that they'd make up all the things posted under her name. ) So I believe she's a nurse.

    Weezie, I'm uncertain why you can't see the objective reasons and rationale posted here in reference to your possible upcoming surgery and your situation, so I therefore have to assume your response is basically emotional rather than reasonable and thoughtful based on the education you have received up to this point. We all are emotional creatures, it's what make us human. The responses you have received here were based on sound medical principle as well as nursing considerations for the patient and for the patient's optimal outcome. It is what it is.

    I know that in the OR, I sometimes can get wrapped up in the emotional issues that the patient may bring forth prior to coming into the OR. I always step back and look at it from the standpoint of the best outcome for the patient. That's what I'm taught to do as a nurse, and that's my responsibility to my position and to my patient. I have stood nose to nose with surgeons advocating for my patient in the OR. It's not just what I do, it's what I am, the patient's advocate. While you apparently cannot see it right now, the physical health considerations outweigh the emotional concerns in this matter.

    I don't expect you to back down from your position. I do, however, expect you will loose this argument with your physician and your hospital should you have the surgery. I think your argument stems from the thought (or your husband's thought) that you will die during the surgery, otherwise, there would really be no argument. All I can tell you is that I participate in many many thyroid, parathyroid, neck dissections, etc., each and every week. I've been in the OR for over 5 years. I haven't lost a patient yet and don't expect to in this type of surgery.

    I really do wish you the best outcome. I also would suggest you try to learn from those around you who have experience. As a nurse, I learn from others everday and I've changed my ideas about life and nursing often as I've traveled this road.

    I do hope that if you need the surgery, you won't allow yourself to decide the issue wholely based on whether your husband is present or not. Because if you do, you won't have the surgery you may very well need badly. Best wishes.
  13. by   weezieRN
    I dont know if i should be on here but dont really care after listening to what you have been saying to my wife ifeel i need to be.I dont know who ccu nrs is but your a sick person my wife is most certainly a rn and in the near future will be working on a masters degree im not asking for anything special i love my wife and believe that if anything is to happen the one person on the face of the earth that should be there is me and i want her with me if i am in the same position. listening to half of you i wouldn't want you taking care of me because there's no caring just another piece of meat on the table. history was full of change and i believe your all afraid of it im sorry im stepping on your toes but in my marriage vows it said to have and to hold until death due us part, not until hospital administration steps in. I know you still dont understand and im not going to waste anymore time trying we love each other thats the bottum line and i wish you would stop bashing her for it. sorry for all the errors i dont wright much. thanks glenn

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