YOU as a Pt-what would you allow a student nurse to do? - page 9

I had mentioned in another thread that I wouldn't allow a student nurse to attempt insertion of a foley on me (unless I'd been anesthetized prior). So that got me thinking.... What would I... Read More

  1. by   dirtyhippiegirl
    As a fairly new grad just off orientation -- I find this thread very amusing. My skills as a student nurse are't really much better as a new grad nurse...only I don't have someone looking over me while I practice said skills as I would have as a student nurse.

    /old post I know
  2. by   AMN74
    I'd let a student do anything to me if I were alert and oriented. I would quiz them about what drug they are giving and how they were going to give it. I'd give them a chance to anything, but I'd quiz them and watch carefully. While foleys are not comfortable, I've had a few and I wouldn't mind a student trying...I'd supervise. NG tubes the same. I think I got a pretty good skill set of skills while in nursing school, 24 years ago. We had a lab, and I think one mannequin back then, but even the mannequin was plastic and couldn't have "invasive procedures" done to it. At my first nursing job, I worked Peds. We had a 15 year old that had severe Chron's disease and was a FTT. The orders were for her to get tube feedings for 12 hours at night. Both patient and mother adamantly refused a feeding tube, so we had to put small 14 french NG tubes in her and change every so often. The patient wanted to go home, but MD was not satisfied with her weight so MD made an agreement with patient that if she would leave NG tube in she could go home. She lived about 4 hours away from our large teaching hospital. MD orders were to teach patient/caregiver to insert NG tube, assess placement, and give tube feedings over 12 hours each night. We had some goals to meet. Patient was reluctant at first to learn, but she really wanted to go home and go back to school. She did not want the tube in her nose during the day at school. Finally we had a "come to Jesus" talk about how were we going to get this done. I told patient that I would help her learn and she agreed. First she cried, then she was mad, and I decided that if we made a game out of it maybe she would learn. So I said..."I know, let's me and you race and see who can get our tubes down faster." She agreed. I gathered the supplies for me and for her. We talked through the procedure, and it was "ready, set, go"... I gagged more than she did and she got hers down first. Mind you we had done this to her many times, and it was my FIRST NG tube. We succeeded in getting the job done, she got to go home. Six months later when they went to the clinic they came up to the floor to visit me. They could not thank me enough for helping her, and she had met goal weight and got to DC her tube feedings. So yeah, I'd let anyone try...it has to be done. If you can tell me how you are going to do it and I think you're doing a fair job, I'm game. Everyone has to learn sometime. If I'm unconscious then what do I know anyway? Have at it!

    And as a Home Health nurse it's my job to teach patients and cg to do many procedures. Deep wound packing, IV therapy, shots etc. If we teach lay people with no education to do this stuff at home, what's the big deal about having a student do it in the hospital?
  3. by   rn/writer
    Quote from Mom To 4
    Ok I am the RN who has never allowed student nurses for myself nor my family. Sorry Charlie but practice somewhere else. If we are in the hospital for whatever reason the last thing I want is trial and error while someone hones skills. Yes, I realize we all started somewhere but as for me no thanks I will pass. Flame on if you feel it necessary
    Where is "somewhere else?"
  4. by   BryanD
    Quote from rn/writer
    Where is "somewhere else?"
    Easy.... On other med students.

    All procedures short of surgery should be practiced on their fellow classmates.

    Also, making med students submit to "intimate" procedures such as caths & other "nudity required" exams / procedures by their classmates will allow to the student to undertstand what the pt is going through, and might help instill sensitivity to the pts modesty, having now been naked infront of (relative) strangers themselves.

    And... if the student doesn't do it right and causes a bit of pain / minor injury, there's less likely to be a lawsuit from an irate pt.
  5. by   BelgianRN
    In nursing school we did all procedures on each other except for placement of foleys. But we did have these fake genitals that we had to wear in our underwear to place foleys and I think it's good experience to have.

    But real patients are still different. And even in seasoned RNs there are some that have great technical skills and some that I would feel very uncomfortable if they were to place a foley. I keep thinking "it's a penis it's made to endure some pulling and tugging without breaking..."

    In Belgium it's not even common to tell people if you are a student nurse or not. If a student nurse is allowed to do a procedure unsupervised as supervising RN I'll know for sure they know it back and forth.

    I recently did an internship at the ER of my own hospital as part of a special course in ER nursing. I've been working in the ICU of this hospital for 7 years and floated to the ER many times already. So it was fun being the "student nurse" there. I kept joking about it with the ER RN's. But this one woman overheard us talking and when I come in to do the IV she goes "uhm are you a student here?". So I tell her I am but I've worked for years already starting IVs so not a newbie. She tells me she is more comfortable with a "real" nurse starting her IV and not some "student". And as she is saying this she is really spitting the words. So I tell her it's no problem I'll get someone to start the IV that is a "real" nurse. Turns out the only one available to do her IV is this new nurse that is horrible at IV's. The poor woman was crying out when I was passing her room thinking "karma is a *****".
    So this "real" nurse leaves the room with a red head stating the woman almost smacked her and she didn't get the IV. So I go back in the room tell the patient it is either me starting the IV or wait for a long while for the meds she needs until we can free up another nurse that are working a code. And I explain to her I'm not trying to convince her to let me do it because quite frankly it's not my sepsis we are trying to treat. But I'm there for her best interest. She allows mee to do the IV. Got the IV on the first stick and she was a lot nicer when her foley needed to be placed.

    That's why I hate working in titles and I don't have a problem having any student do my assessment or procedures. But I've found out over the years if I show up at my hospital with a medical issue I get preferential treatment even though I tell them it's not needed. I don't need to see the professor of emergency medicine for my stubbed toe and I don't need the fellow of dermatology for my freaky skin rash that the med student normally checks out first. But we do the same if they ever end up in the ICU.
  6. by   wish_me_luck
    dumb question...OP, what's the difference in venipuncture done by a student and an IV not done by student? Both you are getting poked in the vein...not being a smart tail side, just wanted to know.
  7. by   RNMom2010
    I would allow just about anything as long as they were being thoroughly supervised for any invasive procedures. I have no fear of needles so I am a great practice pin cushion. I did not want nursing students at all when I was having my son. Leave my labor and new baby to the seasoned nurses thanks!
  8. by   wish_me_luck
    Okay, for my answer, I would let them do pretty much anything on me (I am just recently out of school myself). You have to do stuff to learn. Now, that being said I have had people who were in the field awhile and still could not get stuff (like venipuncture and I have WONDERFUL veins. They blame me and say my vein rolls...their bad, they forgot to anchor it).

    I have had procedures done before and let medical students observe and gotten hair trims by hairdresser students (a little off topic) but my point is this, they are students and the only way they will get better and learn stuff is to practice.
  9. by   Lynx25
    Haha, it really depends on my first assessment of the SN... if you are standing around like a lost little lamb, then you aren't coming near me.

    I went to the hospital once when I developed massive bruises and edema all over my lower extremities. ER docs were stumped- then the Dermatologist stopped by, was delighted to point out that I was allergic to birthcontrol pills and had had an odd reaction, and wanted to know if he could bring a student in to see.


    Sure! Why not, it's a teaching hospital, right?

    In less than 2 minutes I had a room crammed of what appeared to be an entire herd of interns poking and squinting at my shins. Seriously, there were like 40 of them.

    Awkward, to say the least. At least let me put pants on, jeeze.
  10. by   Merlyn
    I was a patient in a VA hospital in Feb for a cardiac bypass. I alluded the students to do anything they wanted
    I let them fix my chest tube, change my bandages 5 or7 times, my heart was assessed 5 times that day. The only thing I told them was the address of this web site. The instructor was happy, the student were happy and I was happy. I've hadn't had that many pretty girls fuss over me since before I was married.
  11. by   wooh
    Quote from wish_me_luck
    gotten hair trims by hairdresser students
    I'd totally let a nursing student practice on me before I'd let a hairdressing student come near my hair with shears.
  12. by   Bradydown
    I havent been a nurse very long, but I have let students start IVs and give meds to me. I have felt comfortable for the most part. I love to teach students, so if they seem nervous I always try to ease some of their nerves by explaining that I have been there, and if they need any help along the way I would be happy to help. I have good lookin veins, many many a nurse have told me they could stick me from ten feet away, but in actuality even though they look nice and plump, they collapse more often then not. All the student nurses have gotten the stick in 1-2 tries. Its the ones that are most confident that usually take more attempts. Actually, I think their confidence at sticking me scares my veins into hiding.
  13. by   wish_me_luck
    wooh, haha. I needed bangs trimmed bad and places were charging like 16 dollars for them and hair schools charged like 2 dollars. It was to save money and to let them practice. It was a good trim, just needed to snip like one area a little when I came home. But, overall it wasn't bad. Nothing grossly sticking out.

    You won't learn anything unless you do it.

    Oh, and I have had a dental hygienist student clean my teeth before. BEST cleaning I have ever received. That was because they are graded on it.

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