Would you do this so others could get vacation... - page 2
We have a large unit, over 80 nurses. Our unit want us to all pick up 8 hours a month so that the very low seniour people can get vacation. My beef is I have worked there for 18 years and why... Read More
Feb 20, '04I guess I am just too rigid, but I work my assigned hours, plus overtime almost daily because of the workload verses staff ratio, and when I take my EARNED vacation, I don't really want to have to come back expecting to have to work even more hours to 'pay' for my vacation. Hospitals have been in this for a very many years, and should have already figured out, you have to have prn staff, some way, some how! Be it part-timers, prns, in-house agency, outside agency, ... SOMETHING! I have worked extra in urgent situations, paybacks to co-workers for helping me out & vice versa, etc., but I don't want it 'built in' to my schedule. I'm with Renee. Every employee should have their earned vacation, regardless of how long they have been there. I couldn't work somewhere where this isn't so.
Feb 20, '04if you work overtime you should be paid overtime, regardless of the situation. PERIOD.
I would not work extra for someone to be off unless it was my personal choice. I did donate PTO hours to a coworker who was off a lot with seriously ill child. It was my choice, however, and did not require me to be at work.
Feb 20, '04Everyone deserves a vacation not just the senoir staff. I agree that it would be nice to have enough staff that covering vacations isn't a problem, BUT I've never worked anywhere that there is enough.
Are there alot of you upset about being switched to from 12's to 8's? If so maybe you can go to management as a group.
Feb 20, '04Ok.. I'm new, not even graduated yet but to be honest I never expected my future employee to give me a weeks vacation, let alone 2 weeks until my first WHOLE year was up.
I am a firm believer in senority, you paid your dues,you should be rewarded, when I pay mine I expect the same. I also think this should apply to the holidays, last to be hired works them and that's that.
Yes I have worked in a hospital before and yea I know it sucks to work Thanksgiving and Christmas especially if you have kids, but like I said fair is fair, this is why all the old timer's hate new nurses. JMO
Feb 20, '04RNKITTY04, making all the newest people work holidays is unsafe. It has nothing to do with paying your dues, it has to do with patient safety. There should be a reasonable mix of experience levels on each shift. Any nurse manager who says otherwise is scary. As far as seniority being the end all and be all.... I understand why people feel that way, I just don't think it is very practical. You will lose all your newer nurses and then the experienced nurses still wind up working holidays because there is no one else left.
If the experienced nurses hate new nurses because of this, I think they're just jealous. Why shouldn't new nurses try to advocate for themselves? I don't think new nurses should get everything they ask for or have all the holidays off, but I also don't think they should have to martyr themselves to please the experienced nurses.
Feb 20, '04I would definitely pick up 8 hours a month to let others have some time off. It would be good for unit morale.
I would not be happy about it if management told us that we HAD to do it though. If it were voluntary, no problem.
Feb 20, '04we already do this where I work....but it's not mandated, which I think makes it easier to swallow.
EVERYONE needs time off, not just OLDTIMERS. I would leave a place if I could not get a vacation for 2 or 3 years.
I know, devil's advocate. But you have to see it from THEIR point of view. I would NOT want to have to wait forever for a break cause I am low man on the totem pole.
I DO THINK IT IS HIGHLY unfair AND wrong to mandate this, especially with NO over time. I would have a real problem with that.
Feb 20, '04I dont understand why you have to work that extra 8 hr thing in order for people to get vacation. If people are on vacation and their absence needs to be covered, thats what SUPPLEMENTAL STAFFING is for --- agency nurses, per diem nurses, or offers of VOLUNTARY OT (with pay) to the regular staff.
We get 5 weeks vacation per year - 2 of them guaranteed to be in summer and in a row if we want. In the summer, at least 2 nurses can be on vacation each week. It doesnt matter if the nurse is least senior. We set up our system so that seniority is taken into account only when more than 2 nurses have asked for the same weeks off. Sometimes it doesnt matter even then because there are times when more than 2 people can be on vacation at the same time. If staffing needs to be filled while anyone is on vacation, agency or per diem nurses are brought in and/or a voluntary ot sign up sheet is posted with the schedule. Nobody can be mandated to work extra because someone is on vacation.
We also designed our contract to read that holidays are given on an "equitable basis" - not a seniority basis - so we wont have the same most senior people getting every major holiday off every year. Everybody gets a turn. Even the new nurses.Last edit by -jt on Feb 20, '04
Feb 20, '04That's similar to how we do it. You request your holiday preferences 1st to last. Hopefully you'll get your top requests, but if you were off on that holiday last year, you may not get it off this year. If you worked it last year, you will more than likely get it this year- regardless of seniority. If it comes down to both of you worked it last year, and both of you want it off this year, then it falls to seniority, unless you can both compromise in some way. We never HAVE to work extra for someone else on vacation, unless it is voluntary. We have enough prn people that is isn't necessary.
Feb 20, '04We do have PRN's, no agency. But, our PRN get to pick and choose their time, not fill in when we need them. That is a whole other thread!Last edit by BittyBabyGrower on Feb 27, '04
Feb 21, '04With 80 nurses working an extra 8 hours a month that is 640hr/month. That is equivalent to almost 4 fulltime nurses. That is what they really need.
I was just curious are your nurses unionized?
I work 2/5 and very rarely work extra. But I am very dependable and reliable. I have never been late in 17 years. And many years had no sick days and usually 2 sick days or less per year.
Why should you have to work 12 extra days a year in order for people to get their vacations? Also at our hospital if you work a certain percentage extra then you end up paying less on insurance premiums and get more vacation.
I hope this policy changes for you.
Feb 21, '04It shouldn't be mandatory and they shouldn't be giving everyone off time in the summer.
There might be enough people who want extra money to volunteer for the wholes in the shift during vacation time. That's what we do.
But allowing everyone off during the summer probably isn't a good idea, vacations should be staggered. There should be a better way.
Why should you work extra hours so your peers can get a vacation? Because it's a nice thing to do. When a fellow-charge nurse goes on vacation, it's understood that the rest of us are going to be inconvienced a bit and work extra to fill the wholes, it's just what we do for each other.
Feb 22, '04Am I understanding correctly that only the part-time employees on the unit are having to pick up extra shifts? If so, then I at least understand why they do not pay overtime. If you were required to work more than a full-time schedule, then I'd say overtime would be an issue. Most nurses that I know who are employed part time ( and I was one for many years) would not think it was a problem to pick up 8 extra hours per month for the summer months. Most would welcome the extra money unless they had other jobs full-time and this job was the fill in for the days off.
But, yes, I'd be upset if I had to rearrange my whole life--work a different shift than I was hired for, make different commuting arrangements if my usual transportation wouldn't work for the extra hours, or get a sitter for kids for extra time. I would go to the NM with a willingness to work the extra 8 hours, but explain that it would create a hardship unless we could come to a compromise on the shifts. Have you tried that?
When you were hired, was any mention made of your being expected to work extra shifts on occassion? I guess I would make the final decision on whether this was fair arrangement by your manager based on the understanding/contract when you were hired into the unit.