Would You do the same thing I did? - page 2

would you do the same thing i did? was it really a crime and ground for termination? or i am missing something? i am a lvn here in san diego working in a small hospital which am employed for... Read More

  1. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    In most states in the US, you can by fired for any reason, or for no reason at all.
  2. by   Valanda
    One of the small hospitals here fired the ER nurse for patient abandonment when he had a heart attack and had to be sent by helocopter to a larger hospital! No respect at all for nurses or their families. :angryfire
  3. by   cmo421
    Wow,sorry for ur trouble.Single parent for many years,only once have I left in an emergency. I was in ICU,but my friends covered for me. When u have teens it is easier then young ones to deligate care over the phone.(I have done it many times,!) I know u where in a panic, but u should have stayed ,sorry. I understand,kids come first. But at that time of the day, it is hard to get ur patient covered. Teens runs temps and your other kids should be able to help.Next time, try calling in someone to cover u from days. Ask the kids to call frequently and give u updates(secretary can help here).
    Sorry again! Hindsite is always 20/20
  4. by   CoffeeRTC
    Okay....if he reported off to another coworker...is that still abandonment? I thought that as long as you pass responsibility on to another coworker it isn't?

    If I was the coworker that had the heart attack and was fired for that.....I would sue big time.

    Back to the ??? I probably wouldn't have left for that instance..might have tried calling home directly to figure out what was going on, assess the situation and maybe call the ped from work if needed.

    How is your kid?
  5. by   ERRNTraveler
    I'm sorry for you situation, but I have to agree with Zookeeper- a fever is not something that warrants a 911 call- you could have called a cab for your teenager to get to the hospital. OR, better yet, since you really only ended up leaving about an hour early, just have your teenager take some Tylenol, & then brought them in when you got done at 0600. Would their medical condition really have changed at all if they had waited one more hour for you to get done with work???
  6. by   fultzymom
    I agree with the others that it would be considered abandonment. But as a mother, if my child had a fever that high, I would be on the way out the door to, with or without their approval. Sometimes you have to make judgement calls about what is the most important and it will cost you something else. I think you made the right decision. Sorry that it cost you your job. Good luck with whatever you do next.

    OH! I almost forgot: How is your daughter doing?


    Leslie
  7. by   oneLoneNurse
    I don't have children, BUT yes I would have done the same thing if you needed an adult there and sounds to me as if you did. BUT, on reflection I think I would have called 911.

    Unfortunate, about them having to report you, though. Fortunately, I think any new employer might understand. If you said something like I learned a lesson and if given that choice again, I would rely on so and so or call 911.

    How is your daughter doing? Good luck!
    Last edit by oneLoneNurse on Nov 14, '07
  8. by   patwil73
    Quote from vnsam
    I told my charge nurse in ICU about this and hearing without reply I took that as a "no problem" with them. I did my 0400 duties and when I was done at 0445 (with no word yet from the supervisor) I went straight to her office and told her that I am done helping my charge nurses and I have to leave.
    I'm confused a bit here - as an LVN are you actually taking a patient assignment or just assisting with the RN"s in the ICU? Did your charge agree to cover for you leaving an hour early?

    I could be wrong, but if you don't have an assignment of patients and had coverage it would not be pt abandonment.

    Quote from vnsam
    To my surprise instead of relieving my post she replied "well Sam, you can not leave until six o'clock and I am busy with staffing". :trout: I was begging and told her that I really have to go since my wife is at work and don't drive but to no avail. By then, it was already 0449 when I clocked out and that was all. I left my work in a hurry knowing they would understand. But I guess I was wrong.. Maybe, if it was someone else with the same problem; they could be sent home right away without problem.. It just so happened that it was me...
    Now this makes me think that you should not want to work in a place like this. The supervisor needs a class in empathy. If you truly had coverage from your charge then I would take it the next step up (HR, the union, whatever you have) and write out concisely what happened, what you did, what your wife did and the response you got from the supervisor. Depending on the hospital you might get reinstated if they feel the action of the supervisor was unwarranted and that no patient was left in danger due to your leaving and hour early.

    Hope this helps,

    Pat
  9. by   ginger58
    Quote from Scrubby
    I personally find this all a bit rough. I don't know if things are harsher over there in the US but where I work, you cannot be fired summarily for a single incident like this. You'd have to have several official written warnings for all but the most serious offence.

    I would understand if you just walked off the job without someone to care for your patients, but if there were other nurses around then it's pretty low to keep you at work. ..
    Just my 2 cents worth on your post on a very sorry situation (no sarcasm intended). Abandonment as defined by the CA BON: For patient abandonment to occur, the nurse must:
    a) Have first accepted the patient assignment, thus establishing a nurse-patient relationship, and then
    b) Severed that nurse patient relationship without giving reasonable notice to the appropriate person (e.g., supervisor, patient)[U] so that arrangements can be made for continuation of nursing care by others.

    Because of CA's nurset ratio, the hospital could be cited/fined, and I only say, could be. Because it sounds like the facility didn't make an effort to get it covered the patients were at risk. Then looking at the BON site any time a nurse is terminated the employer must report this to the BON.

    I do feel bad that this happened and I also feel he should try to make amends with the facility since these are dire consequences to him. We also don't know his work history there that might have contributed to their decision.

    You really can't compare a fever to leukemia. When both parents are out of the house at noc, there needs to be a plan to take care of needs that arise without abandonment. If one had made a doctor's appointment for a fever they might not have been seen until the afternoon--drink fluids, take an ASA or Tylenol until I get home...

    Even to those that this seems harsh, I am very sorry for his situation.
    Last edit by ginger58 on Nov 14, '07 : Reason: - brought up a funny face in b)nurse-patient
  10. by   Dialysis RN1
    Would I have done the same thing as you? probably not. We have a responsibility to our family as well as our patients. Most people would say God first, Family second and Job 3rd. But when our jobs have peoples lives on the line then family and Job are neck and neck for second. I work in acute dialysis so if called in the middle of the night to tend to a patient in need it would have been impossible for me to have left the bedside without causing or potentially causing harm to my patient so no I would not have done what you did. the problem appears to be a bit deeper than this one instance though, the supervisor could have overlooked or even writen up this instance however it being actual abandonment it was a good way to get rid of you without any legal repercussions. you say you have never been in trouble with addministration before this one time however are you one to tow the line or do you walk the line as close to the edge as possible without getting in trouble. niceness and camaraderie go a LONG way when it comes down to tight situations and if you can foster great relationships with the ones you work with then punishment for issues that are tright, can be buffered a bit. Is this right or wrong? well weather it is or isn't, it is how humans most of the times work.
    Sorry for your loss. Call 911 in the future.
  11. by   TrudyRN
    Quote from ginger58
    The sad thing is, in CA this is a mandatory reporting event by the employer when anyone is terminated for this sort of thing. They have 30 days to report.

    Is there anyway you could go talk to your DON and tell her you had an error in judgement and you are working on instructing your kids how to take care of themselves if this happens again, and that you have set up with someone to be available for them?
    Yes, by all means, get to your boss and beg and plead, do the
    mea culpa thing with all your heart. Tell her you were beside yourself with fear and worry, beat your breast, and get her to forgive you and to please, please, please give you your job back. If it doesn't work with her, maybe you could go to her boss but I hope you don't have to.

    She is a witch, yes, she is a total jerk to not have tried to help you, to give you some ideas for how to handle the situation by phone, to not have communicated totally clearly to you in a courteous, mature way BUT you don't want to lose your license. When I was supervising, I had to deal with this type of thing more than once. I always worked with my people to help them do a little triaging - "is the temp oral or rectal? Has Tylenol been given or a sponge bath? How's the neck movement? Any rash? Do you have a pediatrician? Call his exchange. Oh, your RN mom is watching your baby?" And I helped them figure out that it wasn't essential, usually, that they leave. I helped them gain enough peace of mind to calm down and get through at least the majority of their shift.

    There were still a couple of times that they didi have to leave - a car accident involving their loved ones and a broken bone in sports of their child. I could not, in good conscience, forbid these parents leaving. I rearranged the assignment, pitched in myself as best I could in view of all my other responsibilities, and weathered all the really vicious complaining by remaining staff and we got through the shift. Your supervisor sounds like she did absolutely nothing to try to help you but you still must go try to win her over.

    Just plead temporary insanity, due to extreme worry about your kids.

    Good luck.
  12. by   TazziRN
    Quote from oneLoneNurse
    I don't have children, BUT yes I would have done the same thing if you needed an adult there and sounds to me as if you did. BUT, on reflection I think I would have called 911.

    Unfortunate, about them having to report you, though. Fortunately, I think any new employer might understand. If you said something like I learned a lesson and if given that choice again, I would rely on so and so or call 911.

    How is your daughter doing? Good luck!

    Ummm.........a fever is not a legitimate reason to call 911. A call to 911 for a teenager with a fever will result in a very ticked off paramedic and a disgusted ER nurse.
  13. by   DeLana_RN
    Quote from Hellllllo Nurse
    In most states in the US, you can by fired for any reason, or for no reason at all.
    And ironically, they call these "right to work" states! (What it really means is non-union states; therefore, workers have few rights or protections.) Sad, but true.

    DeLana

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