Why is education not valued within our profession? - page 3
why is education not highly valued within the nursing profession? think about the large scheme of other "professions". education is held in high regard. why is this not the case in nursing? ... Read More
Nov 10, '01Brandy I think it is great you are gaining a BSN, but you know what? When I applied for the position I have now the only question they asked was, "Do you have your Nursing Licence?" The nurse manager did not ask if I was a diploma, ASN, BSN, or MSN. All she wanted to know did I pass my boards. That is it nothing more nothing less.
I do believe in education, I told both of my sons as they made their way through and High School to read and learn as much as you can because the governement can take away your freedom, your livelyhood, and even your personal belongings. But what you have in your brain is one thing they can't take away from you.
If we were to compare our college transcripts I assure you the only thing different between the two is you will have the upper nursing courses. I set my first degree up so I can get my BSN at a later date and if I do get my BSN I am getting it for me not for the job!
Good Luck on your graduation!
Nov 11, '01"around and around we go.
this is never going to be settled. everyone says the same things in different words over and over and over."
This Nurse...YOU SAID IT!!!
I am so confused as to the point of this topic!
Brandy, who exactly are you tryng to prove yourself to? Is it yourself, your patients, your coworkers? Seek your BSN, hell go on for you MSN! Do what is good for YOU, don't spend so much time worring about what other nurses have done with thier education. The educational standards are set, decide where you want to fall, acheive it, don't pass judgment. What exactly is a "professional education" in your opinion?
This is a topic that is very TIRED! Let it go.
Nov 11, '01Originally posted by TracyB,RN
Maybe this just jumped out at me b/c the 16 week nutrition class was a requirement for my AD program. Why don't you think Nutrition is important & what else do you think is not necessary?
I am not trying to be an a**, about this. I am just curious.
Nov 11, '01I do not feel like arguing about nutrition! Each nurse needs more or less nutrition education depending on their specialty! I used a poor example...big deal.
My whole point is that I don't think the education system makes it any easier for nurses to continue their education by going back and requiring MORE pre-requisites just so that we can even begin--let alone complete the BSN. Learning takes place, for the majority, OUT of the classroom.
Nutrition was not the the focus of my posting, however, if you get some kind of joy in picking one piece out to harp on then so be it. Example of the pettiness I left behind when I left hospital nursing......
Nov 11, '01Beachnurse, I too had nutrition incorporated in my ADN classes. We didn't have a specific required Nutrition class. Do you think I'm really using that information in the OR????? NOPE .
Each specialty has their own focus. The focus on nutrition is different for a dialysis RN than it is for a cardiac RN......and then there is surgery. We don't focus on it at all......we worry more about positioning and dealing w/patient fears. The only thing we want to know nutrition-wise: " Have they had anything to eat or drink since midnight??" We don't want them to eat anything at all.(before surgery, that is)Last edit by KC CHICK on Nov 11, '01
Nov 11, '01I dont even know what to say, so I am posting to say that I give up. If you can't see the point I was trying to make, then repeating it is not going to do any good. Thank you for the nurses here who have used logic and reason to either agree, or disagree with this topic. If nurses themselves can not see the increased value that our profession would have if we required a 4-year professional education, then there is no way that anyone else will ever take us seriously, or view us as anything other than bed pan slingers. Maybe that is the image you want, and the image you enjoy. I for one do not. We will continue to bellow from our "trained", uneducated standpost, we will continue to whine about benefits given to those professions who have seen it fit to require more education for entry. We will continue to drive away the best and the brightest students. Why would they want to join a profession that has come to an intellectual standstill. Its all a moot point. It doesnt matter. You will believe what you want to believe, harbor what views you want to harbor, and resist betterment for as long as you want to, while the rest of the profession world passes us by. We will never be more, unless we require more, both of ourselves, and of our peers. I'm sure none of you know how much I hate the terms "think outside of the box". I never understood how illogical reason could exist. Then again, I have never met so many people who refuse to even open the box, let alone to look outside. So, this is it. I give up, and my contribution to this thread is finished. We can't improve what we are afraid to look at, and we cant dance if we are scared to step on toes.
Flame away, for I am finished, but please be cautious not to set your box on fire.
Nov 11, '01You...... give up???? How come I don't believe that??
Brandy, if everyone in the world had exactly the same views....the world would be a very boring place. I understand you must be frustrated due to the fact that you cannot convince everyone to think the same way you do about this subject. The answer, however, is not to give up and tell everyone that disagrees w/you that they are wrong for opinions that differ from your own.
Nursing attracts people from all walks of life to enter the profession. Why on earth would it be 'better' for the profession to only attract traditional students?? I consider myself one of the 'best and brightest' students, as do others that post on this board consider themselves to be. We are no less 'bright' for having gone through an ADN program. I don't think the profession is any less a profession because I have a two year degree. It's the way nurses behave that earns them respect.
Universities teach a 'set' way of thinking...in your case, inside the box. Many times throughout your career in nursing you will be forced to think 'outside of the box' for the benefit of your patients. Nothing is black and white/cut and dry in the real nursing world. Get used to it.
Temper tantrums often do not earn respect...... regardless of degree status.Last edit by KC CHICK on Nov 11, '01
Nov 11, '01Hi all. See my last post under professionalism and credentials. This issue will not go away and it shouldn't. Somehow, we nurses need to get beyond discussing our concerns about superiority (the AMA and AHA love this) to how we can save and improve the integrity of the nursing profession and thus provide even higher quality services to the public. IMO, we are sinking at an increasingly rapid rate into quicksand, and we are in danger of being totally marginalized in the health and medical care industry. In the information age, knowledge is power. What are we afraid of?
If you don't want to further your education in nursing, then do it in something else. I think that anything that helps to move those practicing in the nursing profession beyond the status quo will help. High salary doctors and other health care workers are out there saying that they deserve every penny and more that they get for patient care because of their extensive education. We nurses are fighting to be heard in areas of patient care and quality because our education is not respected. How many of us have been consulted as public or patient health advisors during today's crises?
Nov 11, '01While I agree on the need for more recognition of the educational attainments of nurses, there will always be a shortfall if only the "cream" (whatever that may be) are targeted for recruitment, since you will be fishing in a smaller pool, competing with career options which may well have more superficial attractions. Education is in the individuals' own interest, as well as that of the profession, and can even be a goal in itself.
What it is not, is an expensive, ostentatious pocket watch, to be taken out, not to tell the time, but to dazzle others less fortunate with its brilliance. imho
Nov 11, '01KC..Very well said!!
I'm sure Brandy will come back to this thread after she cools off. It is frustrating when you can not get a majority to buy into a package you're so passionate over. Brandy's not irrational, as a matter of fact, she's very unique and does not realize it herself. Brandy sees all BSN's as she sees herself, she does not see the realistic side of what we experience everyday. Brandy's education IS superior to mine, and if all BSN programs were as good as hers then it WOULD greatly improve the respect of nursing for that to be the entry level. Sadly, enough, that isn't the case. I recently oriented a new BSN that could not calculate to save his life. He told me he had one, yes ONE, calculation test in his entire four years. In my three years of ADN, we had one test every two weeks. Big difference there, eh? So, I strongly believe in education.
I still feel it's not so much about the quantity of education as it is the QUALITY OF EDUCATION. That is why I feel our image will only be improved when we REFLECT professionalism, not when we can show a piece of paper.
Nov 12, '01Since my strong suit is to be direct, I will say what surely many here are thinking. If I am the only one, oh well. I keep my own counsel.
I have a very strong feeling that once you graduate, then pass your NCLEX, and are able to use the legal title of RN behind your name. You still need to get a couple of years of experience under your belt, then you too I feel will see what matters more.
Just my opinion
Nov 12, '01as far as i am concerned education matters! no matter how you put it, it sure does matter. if it doesn't matter, then why did we ever go to school to earn whatever degrees we have, be it ADN, LPN, BSN, or whatever. pursuing a more advanced education doesn't mean that lower levels of education make lesser nurses. it all depends on your goals, in what level of nursing you would want to be. if you want to be the bedside nurse, the basic staff nurse, then LPN/ADN/RN will suffice. if you want a step higher in the organizational structure, then go ahead with BSN and Masters. If you want to have more flexibility and independence, then go ahead with NP. this is not a contest amongst us. this is a personal decision of a nurse where he/she decides at what level she would like to practice her profession. an LPN/ADN cannot be a middle level manager because she/he doesn't have the education needed to fill the office. the BSN/MSN does. so, does education matter? oh yes. it all about a matter of personal wants and desires. i like vanilla but i know you like mocha. why should be argue? so, go ahead and do whatever kind of education you want to complete. the universities are just so willing to accept you. chi-ching! and the cash money flows... good luck you all.... soldiers of healthcare!!!
Nov 12, '01I can understand the many Nurses out there who want recognition for their successful completion of their education. That is as it should be. I firmly believe that if a Nurse wishes to wear her initials on her badge she should be allowed to. I applaud those who continue with their education to achieve higher and higher goals. With that said, reality sets in......
The patient you care for does not care how many initials you have behind your name, the patient cares about how you treat them, how you care for them and how you understand them. Bedside nursing required basic nursing skills, self-confidence and the ability to conect with your patient. Only one of those can you learn in school regardless what program you are in. If and when a nurse chooses to progress into management further education than becomes an issue.
Respect for the nursing profession has less to do with the level of education than it does about the level of care and committment one gives to their patients. A Self-confident, committed nurse will continue his/her education in a way that fullfills his/her needs, not just to aquire more initials. It's not a status thing, it's a learning thing. Some may continue in the college structure, others will not, perfering instead to devote their continuing education to their own areas of intrest.
From a personal stand point my area of intrest is Emergency Medicine and I am continously doing continuing education in that field. With some classes I get a little paper saying I was there, In others I get a card and in still others I will be allowed to add CEN to my title if I so choose. I don't take these classes for the paper, or the card, or the new initials. I take these classes to help me become a better nurse in my chosen field.
As an Old Dog Nurse I find the constant bickering about who has what degree tiresome. Each person needs to do what is right for themselves, do what will help them become better, stronger and happier in their chosen field. And the rest of us...should applaude them for their dedication and their decisions.