Why do RN's with ASN and BSN make the same? - page 5

In most other careers those with Bachelors make more then those with Associates, and I don't quite understand why it is different in nursing???? Can someone please clear this up, thanks :)... Read More

  1. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Oh and I did get sidetracked. I believe BSN grads deserve a differential. I believe they SHOULD be paid more. Otherwise, what point would there be to advancing one's education? (besides one's own betterment). Virtually all other areas of work/careers recognize advanced degree preparation/achievment. I hate that nursing is lacking in this, myself. And I am an ADN grad. saying this.
  2. by   RN34TX
    Quote from girlfromtx
    I'm a BSN student. The starting pay I was told by a hospital administrator was $16 and some change. Maybe I should look around....
    That's insane and yes you do need to look around. I'm guessing that this is a small town hospital?
    I say that because I know that no hospital in Dallas or Houston could keep RN's working for them at $16/hour. Even new grads, no way.
    As a new RN my lowest offer was $19/hour and I laughed when I told them that would mean a pay cut from my LVN job that paid $22/hour.
    Keep looking, don't get ripped off.
  3. by   begalli
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    I believe BSN grads deserve a differential.
    I disagree. Same job, same pay. I do think nurses should be able to get what's owed them however for their longevity and involvement in their working environment. For example, if I act as charge nurse for a shift, I except to be paid a differential for taking on the extra role. And if I'm there 20 years, I should be making more than the nurse whose been then 2 years.

    I DO think though that the degree for entry level into nursing should be uniform throughout. But with the lack of nursing school spots available and the demand for nurses so huge, it has to be they way it is now until something can be done about this availability.

    p.s. ALL nurses on our unit have the opportunity to charge if they want regardless of their degree. I think where I am, the opportunity to charge has more to do with a person's innate ability to deal with people. Having one degree or the other doesn't automatically make one a good "people person."
    Last edit by begalli on Feb 28, '05
  4. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Sorry you disagree.

    I still think education SHOULD be compensated. Why bother otherwise? People are not paid to be "good people persons", begalli, but for a job done and the education they achieve IS most often recognized everywhere BUT nursing. This is why I think all BSN entry in the future is NOT a bad idea. It WOULD elevate us a more even playing ground with other professions, and cut down in this in-fighting among us.

    HOW to make it happen, is another story.
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Feb 28, '05
  5. by   mattsmom81
    "But for most of us in this field, the money isn't the primary driver, is it? Hopefully, it's the gratification to help our patients get well! "

    ----Smile123

    We are professionals and deserve the compensation and respect of professionals. We need to get past the altruistic 'nun' and 'angel' ideals that many like to attach to nurses. It holds us back IMHO.
    Last edit by mattsmom81 on Feb 28, '05
  6. by   begalli
    I think education SHOULD be compensated. Why bother otherwise?
    BELIEVE me, SBE. I'm all about education. I truely thought that I was going to end up being a life-long college student. I went to school for about 12 years, the last four being nursing. I'm considering returning to school now. My 2 20 something daughters have 3 degrees between them, one is returning to school in the fall for nursing. At one point all three of us were undergrads at the same time!

    I disagree that all other areas with higher degrees make more money. My daughter with the Master's degree doesn't make a ton of money. She's in education and working at a large, well-known private University.

    My 16 year old son, I hope, will find his niche soon so we can start planning where he wants to go and what he wants to study. But if he doesn't know what he wants to study that's okay because he knows he's going to college and if it takes him a couple of years to decide his major while experiencing life as a young adult, again, that's okay.

    I think one's drive to education is about so much more than the end result of possible money. I don't think it's wrong to want more money for a higher degree, but to some, education is more about the experience of having at least some knowledge of how this crazy world works and loving what you do.
  7. by   SmilingBluEyes
    I hear what you are saying, Begalli. And like I said, I am an AD nurse saying all this. I am VERY Pro- ADN. I think we are consummate professionals deserving of respect.

    But, I just think nursing cannot have its cake and eat it, too. If we want to further our stature in the medical world and end up on equal footing with OT, PT, Pharm and others, we need to step up our education some. Money talks. I think if BSN's were to make more, and the money were appreciable, more people would go back and get one. I see many people getting their RN, C for the pay raise. Why not BSN, too? I think it's high time nursing valued education like "most" other fields do.
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Feb 28, '05
  8. by   zenman
    Quote from begalli
    I'm just wondering what is it that stands out in each that makes you able to differentiate between the 3 during a typical day on the floor?
    Their interaction with patients, their organizational skills, the way they solve problems...or call me with one such as last night from the telly unit "Where can we get a chemo sign?"

    After much thought on how to handle this difficult one, I replied, "Why don't you try calling the oncology unit to see if they can help you."

    Also, I can usually identify which country you come from. For example, every UK nurse I've run across has been a really sharp cookie. I need to check out their educational curriculum when I get time. I will not mention the worse one!
  9. by   zenman
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    Zen, how do you do that??? (pick who is whom)??? And, what is your assessment of each? I am curious. Why??? cause.....

    I don't buy it. Not for a NY minute.
    And a NY minute is worth how much these days?

    Everyone here KNOWS You are a BSN proponent. That is ok; I can respect that.
    I'm more of a nursing proponent so respect me for the level of reality I'm blessed with...if you like!

    ...how do you ever account for ADN's who hold prior baccalaureate degrees or higher? How do you pick THEM out??? Just wondering....
    That's an easy one! With all those liberal art courses, they are the most rounded nurse on the floor, except for the BSN grad with prior baccalaureate or masters degrees. You see, every course you take...every book you read...and this is so fascinating to me...your knowledge level increases!

    You see, it's a myth, propogated mostly by BSN proponents, ---- that you can "pick them out" like that.
    Education in other fields and arts has increased my level of observation. I'm nothing special...just had more education in an area that nurses typically do not get. For, example the unit clerk who almost crapped when I told her that she had vision problems (she wasn't wearing glasses at the time), that her favorite color was green, that she had joint pain and that she did not like windy days...and more...just by watching her for a few minutes. Just a learned skill in another field...so yes, I can pick them out!

    ...professionals exist who had all 3 types of entry into RN practice.
    There are people who act professional and then there are people who by vertue of educational standards, fit into the commonly accepted category of "professionals." Those "rules" were not set by me.

    The "person" is not the "degree." Let's meditate on this...hummmmmm
  10. by   zenman
    Quote from begalli
    I think one's drive to education is about so much more than the end result of possible money. I don't think it's wrong to want more money for a higher degree, but to some, education is more about the experience of having at least some knowledge of how this crazy world works and loving what you do.
    Yes, yes, yes. ...and being able to apply that knowledge.

    Now let's have a contest. The winner gets a 5 day trip to Disney World...in your own mind. :hatparty:

    Pick a non-nursing related course that you have taken and tell us how this has helped make you a better nurse.
  11. by   jeepgirl
    Quote from cancergirl
    In most other careers those with Bachelors make more then those with Associates, and I don't quite understand why it is different in nursing???? Can someone please clear this up, thanks
    Because you do the exact same job... no extra responsibility due to the BSN. If you have extra responsibility, you're usually rewarded for THAT.
  12. by   Kyriaka
    Quote from zenman
    Yes, yes, yes. ...and being able to apply that knowledge.

    Now let's have a contest. The winner gets a 5 day trip to Disney World...in your own mind. :hatparty:

    Pick a non-nursing related course that you have taken and tell us how this has helped make you a better nurse.
    ______________
    I am a firm believer in education for educations sake. I hope to stay in school for the rest of my life.

    I am changing careers from accounting and am working on my BSN. Originally, I went to college to be an attorney so I have many Political Science courses.

    My parents made me learn braille and I know a fair amount of sign language. I have taken a years worth of Latin and I know some Japanese. I know a little German, as well as some Penn. Dutch dialect. I hope to take some physics courses soon.

    Even if I never use this knowlege at work, it doesnt really matter. I am a more well rounded person for the knowlege itself.

    Education is power. Knowlege is power. You can never have enough. There is a misconception in our society that people with more education automatically look down on those with less, but I have seen the bias the other way...there are people who look down on others for wanting to learn more.

    The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing." --Albert Einstein
    Last edit by Kyriaka on Feb 28, '05
  13. by   jeepgirl
    The pick them out thing I can believe... at graduation. At least in my area... they are generally slower and harder to teach on the job.

    Our hospital seems to prefer ADN grads over BSN grads because of our skills. In clinical, the ADN grads are doing their care and moving along.

    The BSN grads are tracking down the tech to do their patient contact work for them and whining to each other that they are working too hard.

    When the BSN students come to the floor we grimace.

    When the ADN's come, we're happy because we know that they will actually help instead of giving us blank stares all day long.

    I know lots of generic BSN nurses who are WONDERFUL. I mean, they are the best. And I want to be like them someday... but there are ADN's who are just as wonderful!

    I think it is impossible to tell them apart after a few months on the job!

close