Why Do I Care?

When one new nurse jumps ship after just a few months, it's none of my business. When it becomes a pattern, it hurts everyone: management, the patients, the new grads themselves and (believe it or not) the crusty old bat tasked with precepting them. Nurses Announcements Archive Article

Why do I care that new nurses leave our unit after less than two years -- often after less than one year? Why do I care, when they're adults. They're going to have to live with the consequences of being out of work, or having a resume that reflects job hopping or never learning the basics of nursing because they never stay in one place long enough to be able to learn them. Why is it any of my business?

When one new nurse makes an ill-considered decision with consequences that she personally is going to have to live with, it's none of my business. No matter how much I like the new nurse, no matter how much I was looking forward to working with her when she was off orientation, it's really not my business. One of my orientees quit while I was off work with medical leave. Later, we met for lunch and she told me her reasons for leaving. "I know you like me, Ruby. But Mary (her other preceptor) didn't, and I was afraid I was going to get fired." When pressed, she had no reason for believing that Mary didn't like her, or that she was in danger of being fired. She was just anxious, and without me there to smooth the processes for her and alleviate her anxiety about how she was doing, she couldn't hack it. It probably reflects badly upon me that I was her lifeline and I hadn't managed to keep her expectations realistic. I was so disappointed -- but none of my business. My former orientee and I are now casual friends, meeting occasionally for lunch and conversation. I enjoy the relationship, but would have enjoyed it more if we still worked together.

When the majority of our new nurses leave in less than two years, that's a problem that affects all of us. The majority of nurses that come to our unit do so to get ICU experience for their CRNA school applications. We all know it, even if they don't announce it to the world on their first day (as many do.) Others come here because it looks good on their resume, or to get tuition reimbursement for their NP programs or because their SO is in residency here. Within their first month on the unit, most of our new nurses give us an approximate exit date that has nothing to do with our staffing, our patient population, how we are to work with as colleagues or anything else that has anything to do with anything other than their own goals. There may be a cure for that sort of thing, but not at the staff nurse level.

We have a 30 bed ICU, so our staff is large. That means that we are CONSTANTLY orienting new nurses, and because our core staff of seasoned nurses is finite, that means if you've been there for more than two years, you're going to be precepting. Of course that means that people who should NOT be precepting are forced to anyway. People who are lazy or poor teachers or difficult to get along with are foisted upon new grads as their preceptors -- which isn't good for anyone. But even those seasoned nurses who LOVE new staff and LOVE to teach get burned out with constant precepting.

Precepting is difficult. It's so much easier to just go in there and assess that patient yourself rather than teach a new nurse how to do an assessment, discuss her findings and how they differ with yours (if they do) and what potentially that could mean. It easier to give the dang meds yourself than to wait around while someone else laboriously checks them out of Pyxis, looks them up, considers whether they're appropriate to give right now given whatever else is going on, and then gives them or holds them and notifies the provider. If you're doing it right, precepting a new nurse is one of the most difficult challenges you'll ever have as a nurse.

Those of us who remain at the bedside, mostly do it because we love taking care of our patients. Precepting means that we aren't actually doing the work of taking care of our patients. We're teaching someone else to do it, holding their hands, providing feedback that is hopefully in a format they can understand and accept, documenting their progress and having meetings with management and other preceptors to keep tabs on how they're doing. We're not taking care of our patients, which is what we stayed at the bedside to do.

Constant turnover of new nurses means that we rarely get a break from precepting. And when after all of our hard work with a new nurse, that new nurse leaves as soon as she can, that's demoralizing. In some cases, when you've nurtured a new nurse and mentored them and you know they're the perfect fit for our unit, it's heartbreaking.

And then someone calls us mean and nasty, implies that we're just jealous of opportunities we haven't grasped for ourselves or says that the only reason we're against job hopping is because we're old dinosaurs who don't want anyone to have things better than we did. I have the job I wanted -- my dreaaaaaammmmm job. I'm happy with my life, with my job, with my colleagues. I'm exactly where I want to be. But I sure wish a few others would look a little harder, see what a great job this is and what a great place to work and stay awhile!

Specializes in nursing education.

When I read Ruby's initial post about nurses leaving shortly after being hired, I read it as : she sees all these posts on AN where nurses she never met in real life are whining, unhappy, leaving a job after a short time, and why would she take it personally. This post clarifies why : these are nurses on her own unit, many of whom she has precepted.

High turnover affects morale. It affects patient care.

One thing I have read recently (and I am not in a position to hire, fire, or anything like that) is: "hire for attitude, train for skill."

What I like about that is, as many of those responding here have brought out, is it brings out that if your intention is to leave in a year, or two years, why work in a place with such a long learning curve as ICU? A new hire should mesh with the culture where he or she is hired. Certainly, some people will leave after a short time due to other factors. By and large, however, people should be hired to fit into the unit.

My workplace is not ICU by any means, but it is certainly not for everybody. For a while our new hires were leaving after a month or two due to being a poor fit. We made some changes to the hiring process that put this to a halt. Now, people are by and large staying a long time (in some cases, longer than they should...another subject entirely!).

When I read Ruby's initial post about nurses leaving shortly after being hired I read it as : she sees all these posts on AN where nurses she never met in real life are whining, unhappy, leaving a job after a short time, and why would she take it personally[/quote']

I think she was talking about both to be honest.

Specializes in Med/surg, Quality & Risk.
Zzzzzzzzzz... are we still on this?

Somebody made you read it?!

Specializes in GI,Telemetry, Trauma ICU, Endoscopy.

I totally understand this. I worked in a Trauma ICU where this was the case, and the seasoned nurses had to carry such a big load. Not only were they constantly precepting, but they also were tasked with taking the sickest patients day in and day out, especially fresh traumas and donor patients. The problem on that unit (and I'm not saying this is true about all units like this) was that any new nurse, whether they had previous experience or not was treated and scrutinized like a new grad. Also, management was into micromanaging and did not support any nurse if problems arose. Although there were a few nurses here and there that had more than 5 years exp, the majority of the nurses had 3 years or less. Even the manager had less than 5 years experience split between bedside, supervisor, and manager. I left running as fast as I could after just one year because the unit and corporate culture at that hospital was toxic.

Specializes in Neuro ICU/Trauma/Emergency.

May I add, the new graduates are much older these days. Meaning, most have made the decision to go into nursing for financial gain & are not interested in maintaining their position as a nurse. I have seen many new graduates come onto my unit with finance, engineering, accounting degrees etc.. While I am not discouraging anyone from following their passion for nursing, if that's truly your passion. But, if you wouldn't make your other degrees work for you how do you suppose you're going to make nursing work for you?

This age old mindset that "You'll always have a job as a nurse" is what drives the wrong people into the field. All that we, as nurses, have done to pave the way will soon be gone. I am not middle age, yet, but I feel as though my 13 years fighting for my organization & union should be respected and carried on.

Ruby if you have not already, I'd suggest that you either start or join the a Retention and Recognition Committee. Like you, I've witnessed both new grads and seasoned nurses up and leave a job due to stress or workplace drama. I won't even say bullying because bullying is subjective and I refuse to open that can of worms today.

I actually care about my colleagues and often feel sad when a good nurse decides for whatever reason to put that notice in. I've been there and done that plenty of times which is why I felt compelled to do something. I'm now a member of the Retention and Recognition Committee at my place of employment. In a nut shell: we work diligently to make sure our staff work in a positive work environment so that they do not want to leave. We recognize our hard working staff on a regular basis and make sure that patient have the tools to nominate nurses and techs for awards. I've found what we do at our hospital boosts the moral of the units and make going to work easier. No it is not all sunshine and roses but this does alleviate some of the stress especially for new grads. Perhaps it is the culture of your unit that needs to change, and maybe you can be apart of developing a system to boost the morale on your unit.

All I'm seeing in this post is, "I care because it makes my job more difficult." I really thought this was going to be about how patient care is made more difficult and potentially less safe by a nurse constantly being in charge of the patients and preceptees in a high-acuity environment, but it's all about how "demoralizing" and "heartbreaking" the job is for the seasoned nurses where you work.

^^^This ^^^

So crusty old bats should care about making new nurses' jobs easier, by being super nice and supportive. But we shouldn't care when new nurses make the crusty old bats' jobs harder?

No, the Crusty old bats ( I hate this terminology but I'll play along) should be open to discussing how to boost the morale of the unit so that nurses don't want to leave.

It is not only NEW nurses that leave, seasoned nurses get fed up to with the daily melodrama cattiness. I've seen more seasoned nurses leave than new grads because unlike the new grad that seasoned nurse has experience and can get a job any where any time.

If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.

Specializes in Med-Surg, NICU.
Orientation for new grads in my unit is six months; more if we feel that the new grad would be a good fit for the unit and just need more time. It's the best orientation program I've seen in 35 years of nursing. We have nurse educators, classes, a simulation lab -- all the support and resources you could think of and some that would not have occurred to me. I don't know what more we as a unit could do to get new grads to stay . . . a contract has to occur above the unit level.

My frustration is not misplaced. It's not the institution or the unit I work on. It's the culture among new grads that say "I'll do what I want and it's no concern of yours," or "I'm going to do the best I can for MEEEE, and you're not my concern." I'm not saying all or even most new grads suscribe to that culture, but you see it here an awful lot.

Just curious, but what percentage of your preceptees are jumping ship "too soon"? From your post, it sounds like you are experiencing an epidemic. Could it be the unit? The nature of working in ICU (and the steep learning curve)? Could it be their preceptor?

There is nothing wrong with people looking out for themselvs. As harsh as it sounds, you are not their (main) concern. These new grads may have obligations that you don't know about. Or they scored their dreeeaaammm job. Or they have found that they aren't a great fit for your unit or ICU in general. Keep in mind that the ICU is a steep learning curve (and many ICUs don't hire new grads for this reason).

My personal stance? I think new grads should stay in their first nursing job for the first year or so. Not out of loyalty or for the employers' benefit, but to get down the basics and learn how to be a nurse. I do think people should look out for themselves because employers sure as hell aren't.

This "me, me, me" mentality is a product of our society. Let's face it: our society isn't as community-focused as it once was. My parents and grandparents can remember a time when people look out for each other; people didn't need to lock their doors and or look over their shoulders. There was a sense of camaraderie. People put in many years with employers, and employers valued and rewarded them for their hardwork. On top of that, people had more financial and social security.

Now capitalistic greed reigns supreme, and people MUST put themselves and their families first. We are quick to throw others under the bus. There is more competition. People who decide to leave your unit may do so to out of fear of losing their licenses because of a mistake. People may leave because a family member or child is battling an illness and they are not eligible for FMLA. People may leave because they really feel that in their heart of hearts, they are not happy and don't you want to work with people who actually want/like their job?

Specializes in Neuro ICU/Trauma/Emergency.

This "me, me, me" mentality is a product of our society. Let's face it: our society isn't as community-focused as it once was. My parents and grandparents can remember a time when people look out for each other; people didn't need to lock their doors and or look over their shoulders. There was a sense of camaraderie. People put in many years with employers, and employers valued and rewarded them for their hardwork. On top of that, people had more financial and social security.

Now capitalistic greed reigns supreme, and people MUST put themselves and their families first. We are quick to throw others under the bus. There is more competition. People who decide to leave your unit may do so to out of fear of losing their licenses because of a mistake. People may leave because a family member or child is battling an illness and they are not eligible for FMLA. People may leave because they really feel that in their heart of hearts, they are not happy and don't you want to work with people who actually want/like their job?

None of what you've mentioned here is some random spur of the moment occurrence. I am not sure where your grandparents are from. But, I will assure you it can not be New York!

No matter if they're leaving one company and going to another, you never know the security of your job. You have to place time in and build a foundation somewhere. Because, if they (New Graduates) think they're going to more money over at Institution B and leave Organization A on bad terms ( in this care leaving before your probation period), if Institution B begins layoffs, New Grad( now seasoned nurse) will be looking for employment elsewhere and she can count out Organization A.

Please -- if you have something to add about the subject of new nurses jumping ship immediately and how patient care is made potentially less safe, contribute it. I'd love to read it.

I have something to add. I quit my job in the CVICU because of workplace bullying made new nurses prone to mistakes which made it "potentially less safe". I have witnessed much bullying with my co-workers but I'll start with my self.

1. Had a nurse call me stupid/retarded in front of my peers

2. Had a nurse yell at me " hurry up at the pyxis" as I wanted to take 3 extra seconds to make sure I was grabbing the right medication for the right patient.

3. One of my preceptors left me alone to take care of a patient actively having a MI with little to no support because " this is the best way to learn". This was 3 weeks into orientation. Ofcourse, she talked about me behind my back when I had a hard time dealing with a sick patient.

I could go on and on, but my point is don't blame new grads. Blame the unit. I'm not saying that you all need to give hugs, kisses and skittles to new grads but obviously what ever you all are doing now is not working.

Specializes in Med-Surg, NICU.
None of what you've mentioned here is some random spur of the moment occurrence. I am not sure where your grandparents are from. But, I will assure you it can not be New York!

No matter if they're leaving one company and going to another, you never know the security of your job. You have to place time in and build a foundation somewhere. Because, if they (New Graduates) think they're going to more money over at Institution B and leave Organization A on bad terms ( in this care leaving before your probation period), if Institution B begins layoffs, New Grad( now seasoned nurse) will be looking for employment elsewhere and she can count out Organization A.

Actually, my grandfather is from Long Island.

Oops.