Why do dying people reach upward? Why do dying people reach upward? - pg.3 | allnurses

Why do dying people reach upward? - page 3

I've noticed that when it gets toward the end for people (not necessarily the VERY end, but maybe the last month or so when they have started really going downhill) they will hold their arms upward... Read More

  1. Visit  mcs1505 profile page
    3
    Quote from 2bNewRN2010
    This is just my reaction to the posts I have read so far. I just wonder why non believers are trying to discredit the believer's view on this point. If they choose to believe that they are reaching up to God then so be it, but if you belive otherwise then that's fine too. We all are entiltled to our own beliefs and there is no need to impose our beliefs on someone else.
    I was wondering the same thing. The way I see it: the "nonbelievers" get irritated bc they feel like the "believers" are proselytizing so the "nonbelievers," in an attempt to get the "believers" to stop, wind up doing the exact same thing.
    Which is irritating, no offense. If you want to have a "I'm right-No I'm right" argument about religion, online is the exact wrong place to do it. It's too easy to offend someone when they can't see facial expressions or hear tone of voice, and no amount of smilie usage is really going to be the same.

    Of course, I have my own beliefs etc. but I think that if it comforts people (the pt or their family) to think they see God or family members or old pets or a beautiful landscape or Heaven or a house built out of beef jerkey and cheese dip, it's not doing them any harm psychological or otherwise.
    We, above all other professions, know the power and importance of a comforting touch/word/idea, right?
  2. Visit  Jo Dirt profile page
    2
    Quote from mcs1505
    I was wondering the same thing. The way I see it: the "nonbelievers" get irritated bc they feel like the "believers" are proselytizing so the "nonbelievers," in an attempt to get the "believers" to stop, wind up doing the exact same thing.
    Which is irritating, no offense. If you want to have a "I'm right-No I'm right" argument about religion, online is the exact wrong place to do it. It's too easy to offend someone when they can't see facial expressions or hear tone of voice, and no amount of smilie usage is really going to be the same.

    Of course, I have my own beliefs etc. but I think that if it comforts people (the pt or their family) to think they see God or family members or old pets or a beautiful landscape or Heaven or a house built out of beef jerkey and cheese dip, it's not doing them any harm psychological or otherwise.
    We, above all other professions, know the power and importance of a comforting touch/word/idea, right?
    This is so funny, because I was thinking the same thing, only vice versa. It sounds to me like the people who believe were getting very annoyed with people who held another opinion that did not support spirituality...I honestly do not believe anyone who has argued they do not believe sounded annoyed or irritated with the believers.Take me, for example, what was wrong with giving my objective opinion on what I had seen? I'm being totally honest and objective when I say I have never once been around a dying person (and I've been around many) who has done anything that shows any evidence of an afterlife, and that is why I don't understand the arm raising. That doesn't make me any more wrong than it makes someone who believes people are raising their arms up to God.

    I guess there may be only one way we will all find out.
    cardiacRN2006 and leslie :-D like this.
  3. Visit  lupin profile page
    2
    I saw the raising arms thing and calling out for dead (or absent) family members quite a lot in LTC and NH. My own grandmother who was A& Ox3 right up until she passed, woke up at one point asking for her grandfather, who had been dead for decades. It scared me at the time because I knew that meant the end was near but now it comforts me to think that she saw a loved one who came to help her cross over.
    I have also seen those passing over become extremely frightened at the end and start asking "not to go there" wherever "there" is. I don't see much of this now in the ER, usually they come tubed and in the middle of compressions or DOA or with a rhythm (and then over to ICU). I don't really miss seeing death bed scenes like LTC.
    I find as far as believing goes, it hurts nothing to believe in something above, so why argue about it? You believe in what you believe, I'll do the same and solemnly swear not to appear on anyone's doorstep ready to convert people. I'm not that good at convincing people anyway.
    BlueRidgeHomeRN and mcs1505 like this.
  4. Visit  Jo Dirt profile page
    1
    Quote from lupin
    I saw the raising arms thing and calling out for dead (or absent) family members quite a lot in LTC and NH. My own grandmother who was A& Ox3 right up until she passed, woke up at one point asking for her grandfather, who had been dead for decades. It scared me at the time because I knew that meant the end was near but now it comforts me to think that she saw a loved one who came to help her cross over.
    I have also seen those passing over become extremely frightened at the end and start asking "not to go there" wherever "there" is. I don't see much of this now in the ER, usually they come tubed and in the middle of compressions or DOA or with a rhythm (and then over to ICU). I don't really miss seeing death bed scenes like LTC.
    I find as far as believing goes, it hurts nothing to believe in something above, so why argue about it? You believe in what you believe, I'll do the same and solemnly swear not to appear on anyone's doorstep ready to convert people. I'm not that good at convincing people anyway.
    That's Pascal's Wager and nothing wrong with it at all.
    BlueRidgeHomeRN likes this.
  5. Visit  leslie :-D profile page
    0
    Quote from Spidey's mom
    Maisy - these are the kind of stories that are included in the book I mentioned, "Final Gifts". The authors are hospice nurses. I'm not finished with the book yet but the stories are "richly told".

    steph
    i read that book 2-3 yrs ago.
    what i got out of that book, was the dying pt's uncontrollable need to travel...
    often talking 'gibberish', nonsensically about taking a boat, train, plane.
    that these authors, in their yrs of hospice experience, would consistently talk w/dying pts and try to make sense of where they had been (yes-many dying pts talk about being somewhere while 'sleeping' yet can seldom define it) and where they need to go.

    that 'need' to travel truly is indicative of their spirits preparing for celestial growth.
    to this day, it's amazing for me to observe these phenomena.

    leslie
  6. Visit  BlueRidgeHomeRN profile page
    4
    Quote from motorcycle mama
    that's pascal's wager and nothing wrong with it at all.
    whoa...i love folks who have read a lot!!

    hey--i spent 18 years in catholic education, and couldn't get out of college (with my first degree) without 2 semesters each of theology and philosophy, plus formal logic..[if p, then q stuff]

    i may be way off base, but what i sense insofar as those who feel annoyed on either side is:

    agnostics/atheists....."wish they'd act like educated folks and stop with the fairy tales"..

    theists..."if i don't help these folks they're gonna have a horrible life and then go to hell"

    besides, who likes to contemplate the notion that their entire world view may be a fraud.........so let's speak our truths without preaching either way.
  7. Visit  leslie :-D profile page
    2
    Quote from mcs1505
    I was wondering the same thing. The way I see it: the "nonbelievers" get irritated bc they feel like the "believers" are proselytizing so the "nonbelievers," in an attempt to get the "believers" to stop, wind up doing the exact same thing.
    Which is irritating, no offense. If you want to have a "I'm right-No I'm right" argument about religion, online is the exact wrong place to do it. It's too easy to offend someone when they can't see facial expressions or hear tone of voice, and no amount of smilie usage is really going to be the same.
    where are these arguments taking place?
    i haven't read any proselytizing posts, nor any posts w/absolute beliefs.

    what did i miss?

    leslie
    Jo Dirt and cardiacRN2006 like this.
  8. Visit  BlueRidgeHomeRN profile page
    0
    Quote from earle58
    where are these arguments taking place?
    i haven't read any proselytizing posts, nor any posts w/absolute beliefs.

    what did i miss?

    leslie
    i think "argument" is in the eye of the beholder, leslie..

    some folks a little sensitive on these matters of faith.
  9. Visit  leslie :-D profile page
    1
    Quote from blueridgehomern
    i think "argument" is in the eye of the beholder, leslie..

    some folks a little sensitive on these matters of faith.
    mama asked what outstretched arms mean?
    people are answering what it 'could' mean:
    mixed in w/some posts who are sharing pt's experiences in seeing loved ones who have passed.
    dang, no reason for any one to get so huffy puffy.
    these are only opinions.

    now, if we could reopen that thread on the "jesus factor":
    now that was a thread.
    blue, do you remember that one???
    oy.:chuckle

    leslie
    Jo Dirt likes this.
  10. Visit  Atheos profile page
    2
    Quote from blueridgehomern
    by definition, existance in another dimension cannot be proved or disproved by the scientific method in this dimension.

    carl sagan can have his hard truth, i have my own hard truth.
    by definition, nothing can be disproved. everything in science is either proved or failed to disproved. you really can't prove much in science. this is not a failing of science. it is a failing of man.

    and not being able to prove another dimension is still just a theory. of course so is gravity. well actually gravity falls under 2 theories.

    sorry got off topic there...

    no one answered my question. why are schizophrenic visions biological but death visions spiritual? where is the sense in that?
    Last edit by Atheos on Jun 27, '08
    Jo Dirt and hypocaffeinemia like this.
  11. Visit  tencat profile page
    0
    Who says Schizophrenic visions and deathbed visions are NOT the same thing? Maybe they are.....
  12. Visit  Spidey's mom profile page
    1
    Quote from Stanley-RN2B
    No one answered my question. Why are schizophrenic visions biological but death visions spiritual? Where is the sense in that?
    The point of the book "Final Gifts" is that "medicine" and family members ignore or write off as a dementia, a dying patient's last gestures or words. And we should be paying attention - caring for them. Not ignoring them. Whether you believe or not.

    That is compassion.

    steph
    MAISY, RN-ER likes this.
  13. Visit  leslie :-D profile page
    2
    Quote from Spidey's mom
    The point of the book "Final Gifts" is that "medicine" and family members ignore or write off as a dementia, a dying patient's last gestures or words. And we should be paying attention - caring for them. Not ignoring them. Whether you believe or not.

    That is compassion.

    steph
    maybe not dementia, per se, but certainly md's/nurses will note the pts as either confused:
    and even dx'd w/terminal agitation when pts feel they're not being listened to.
    and then these pts are medicated/sedated.
    not very insightful or ethical.

    dying pts have much to teach us.
    but first, we must be willing to listen.

    leslie

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