Where are the men? - page 6

Why haven't more men entered the field of nursing over the years? Nursing remains at 94.6% female.... Read More

  1. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    Wow, I have almost walked away from reading these posts thinking that men think there is something wrong with women who dominate in a field. I'm disapointed.
    I'm not going to PM you since we are on topic. It is possible to discuss this issue without direct and indirect insult.



    Part of post #20 by Hbscott
    I left nursing because I grew weary of the passive aggressive behavior I witnessed daily in nursing practice as nurses turned on each other for one reason or another.
    Could this be an example of that?


    Where are the men? They are out there with other men and women working hard looking for those jobs that give them in some measure personal satisfaction and financial well being.
    Could it be because they are not welcome? I felt unwelcome and uncomfortable myself. I saw my future of more of the same, and I cut my losses by moving on.
    If we discuss this topic in a nonconfrontational manner you will hear from other males that feel the same way. These males may be your coworkers. They are not likely to discuss this openly, so this is your chance for insight into how they feel.

    If you feel shame, then perhapse you are guilty of inflicting it upon them.
  2. by   ainz
    gaspassah

    I think your observations are right on target. Especially where you say that until the (nurse) can demonstrate they have saved someone's life by picking up on s/s, making a decision, and acting on it will you begin to get respect.

    In my 14 years of staff nursing I have seen this happen several times in the critical care areas and some on the floor. Of course the nurse went out on a limb and did things and got the doctor order after the fact, but nonetheless, the nurse had the knowledge base, skill, and guts to just do what needed to be done. I think this demonstrates the capability of nurses to make REAL contributions to patient outcomes, not just TCDBq2h or give baths etc.

    It is documenting these kinds of actions that show the contribution nurses can make. I well understand the limitations on staff nurses' time but someone needs to be engaging in activity that will help advance the profession, that is usually the nursing management and nursing director and perhaps researchers and educators. Particularly those in academia who have the time and resources to think, read, do literature reviews, design studies, gather and analyze data, etc.
    I will be sick if I read another study under the guise of "nursing research" where we are studying nurses attitudes, behaviors, students' attitudes and behaviors and so on. I don't mean to be critical of nurses in academia who advocate such, but, we need some things that will arm the staff nurses, unit-level nurse managers, and directors of nursing with documented evidence that will be accepted by other disciplines that has real meaning and applicability to the point-of-service where it is all happening.
  3. by   iliel
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Peeps Mcarthur
    I'll throw in here,
    . Societal expectations notwithstanding, I believe that nursing schools use female-friendly curicculums to keep thier pass rates up(since most students are female)
    [QUOTE]
    Here is an example of something that would seem insulting to a female. It sounds like you're saying that women, being less intelligent than men, need to have curicculums "dumbed down" for them in order to pass.

    [QUOTE]I wanted to seek out a studygroup from the first day, but the conversations after class were not about the subject matter on that day and I had a very difficult time "working the room" in seeking out the most dedicated students.
    Same thing the next class, and on, and on, and on.
    If you were not prepared to discuss children,hairstyle,recipies.........blah,blah,blah ..........you were NOT getting in any study groups. [/B][QUOTE]

    Ok, if this happened after class, who cares, why does everyone have to talk about nursing 24/7. Did you even try to get to know these women. Did they try to get to know you?

    [QUOTE]The nursing staff is perplexed as to why I would not continue.
    It's difficult to explain without offending them, so in all my maleness I gladly suppress what I'm feeling and tell them "it's just not for me"[/B][QUOTE]

    why is it hard to explain? They needed to know how you felt so they can change things in the future. If you want change you need to speak up.
    I am disapointed that the school allowed you to drop out, if this was really something you wanted, they shouldn't have done that.

    Ok. I was not giving anyone here an attitude, These reasons above is why I felt like I could walk away from here thinking that men have a problem with a women dominant field. When I said I was disapointed, it was due to the fact that this happened in your shcool and that the teachers let you slip through with out noticing this was going on. Now that I hope you understand where I come from and understand that I wasn't trying to flame you, or give any "attitude" I hope we can talk. Do not assume anyone here has attitude about men. I am not going into nursing to be apart of a sorority, I already did that once.

    Oh, and one more question. You said you were planning on being a PA. Do you plan to do rural or urban? I have seen some schools that are more rural in their training. Just wondering, it seems like a very interesting career. Thanks.
    Last edit by iliel on Aug 5, '03
  4. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    Iliel,
    A great example for discussion.

    From Iliel (direct)
    Here is an example of something that would seem insulting to a female. It sounds like you're saying that women, being less intelligent than men, need to have curicculums "dumbed down" for them in order to pass.
    Iliel's quote of me
    [QUOTE]Societal expectations notwithstanding, I believe that nursing schools use female-friendly curicculums to keep thier pass rates up(since most students are female) [QUOTE]

    A curicculum that is attractive to females is developed by females, with the most pronounced attributes of a female mind taking precedence. Certainly, there are male nursing instructors somewhere, but women developed the concept of nursing, and those attributes which it values are in fact femminin.
    I did not mean to infer that the curicculum is "dumbed down".


    Ok, if this happened after class, who cares, why does everyone have to talk about nursing 24/7. Did you even try to get to know these women. Did they try to get to know you?
    Being able to communicate on a social level is apparently a prerequisite to joining a study group as far as I have observed. I was not prepared for such a thing. The same women that were just pleading for my help in micro and A&P(I spent time tutoring to groups for free) virtualy ignored me once they were in nursing lectures. They were already in thier groups and when asked said "sorry we're full"
    A studygroup full?.........all of them?..............gee

    I understand that they now had the power. Psychosocial response is the female domain. They no longer had to try and understand the electron transport chain, gram positive vs. negative, or the chemical processes within a muscle cell...............nope, I was obselete to them socialy. I see it objectively, and I'm not bitter.

    I appreciate the fact that you feel badly that my program could not have resoved the problem.
    Thank you............However, I'm very glad now that It happened. It opened my eyes and forced me to see what I was really getting in to. Better that I moved on before I felt it everyday at work.

    Whether rual or urban , I see myself in family practice believe it or not, but I won't make that judgement until I'm through my clinical rotations.
    I don't shun all aspects of psychosocial theory, but it should not be to the detriment of medical science.
  5. by   iliel
    If I've walked away with anything from this, it's to welcome men. I've welcomed them before, but this sorta opens my eyes to some of the issues.
    Thank you for clearing this up, I'm glad to hear you don't feel nursing is "dumbed down" for us ladies!
    Good luck with the PA program! How much longer do you have?
  6. by   goingCOASTAL
    Originally posted by Peeps Mcarthur

    I don't shun all aspects of psychosocial theory, but it should not be to the detriment of medical science.
    I can't help but agree with this. One of the things that increasingly make my job more difficult is the increasingly longer admission assessments that someone with a suit keeps forcing us to use. When I started at this facility, the admission assessment and history was a mere six computer screens full of info (and I believe in nursing assessments). Today, it's like 20 screens, and most of it's useless "psychosocial" crap that merely takes our time away from patient care.

    Alot of our nursing staff simply answers the questions "no" unless they appear to be relevant, but if we all "took the time" (which we never have), we'd have to ask every single patient we're admitting, "Have you ever been touched, kissed, fondled, etc. without your permission?" and more bizarre questions, even if our patient is a college linebacker. We've gone from a basic pain scale, to an entire pain assessment that's three pages long, and is supposed to be done every four hours, which asks such questions as, "how does that pain make you feel?" "How does it change when you blah, blah or blah?"

    What happened to, "are you in pain," "where are you hurting," the 0-10 pain scale, and "let me see if I can get you some pain medication?"

    If this "enth degree" psycho-social stuff was played out as it was designed, there would be no time for passing meds, assessing patient's real problems, or performing basic nursing skills.
  7. by   ainz
    Amen goingCOASTAL. Just so you will know, we have the JCAHO to thank for most of this "crap" as you say. Definitely have them to thank for the new emphasis on pain management, the new "fifth vital sign."
  8. by   Louie18
    Are you also coastal?
    I'm Louie.
    I live in Michigan. We have about 6 more weeks of sunshine left better get to me fast afore I go on a bummer.
    Must be my perspective huh? I am far from jaded as I sound.
    nitenurse12@hotmail.com or 517 414-7428.
    Tsk. tsk, all this talk.
    First thing I did is send #3 to school. My life today is a daily blank check. Talk to me.
  9. by   Louie18
    About becoming a P.A.
    Try living in the only house on the main 4 corners of a one light town, with no Doc.
    P.A. becomes triage.
  10. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    Iliel,
    I'm glad we are listening to eachother.

    Thank you for clearing this up, I'm glad to hear you don't feel nursing is "dumbed down" for us ladies!
    Good luck with the PA program! How much longer do you have?
    I have to fulfill anywhere from 70-90 prerequisite credits. I'll be at around 60 next fall. By next year it will all be science classes..........finaly. I am so sick of english,hx,and those "other" things.
  11. by   iliel
    Originally posted by Peeps Mcarthur
    Iliel,
    I'm glad we are listening to eachother.
    I know, I feel like we've accomplished something here!

    Good luck with the PA prog!
  12. by   Dinith88
    As far as I'm concerned, there're plenty of men in nursing already!
    On my unit there are 3 of us....so i have to share the ladies with 2 other guys! :kiss

    (hope my wife doesn't see this)...


    Just teasing......a bit.

    Richard
  13. by   Tink RN
    Yes Dinith ... I was about to say - All you male student nurses out there reading this don't get bummed out! The male nurses in our unit are SPOILED rotten! They are the target of the majority of the "cute-sey" flirty stuff, everyone tries to feed them constantly (one of the older nurses that works prn brings them a cake everytime she works) and overall everyone loves them. Excellent nurses - they do their jobs and they aren't interested in the "back biting" and bickering that tends to go on between some of the females. (is it estrogen?) They have become very protective over us as well which is truly a blessing when you are dealing with a combative 6'0" 250 lb+ ETOH abuse case. The "gay" stereotype of male nurses is slowly fading away ... one of our guys actually is gay but we love and spoil him too. :kiss

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