When is it ethical to talk about religion with a patient? - page 6

I was talking with a collegue the other day and she described a conversation with a pt where it sounds as if she were basically evangelizing. Now I had been told by my pastor (Catholic priest), who... Read More

  1. by   PANurseRN1
    Quote from JBirdAngel
    If your a Christian, we are to follow Jesus' example. I think we are most certainly to talk to patients, as well as everyone about our Lord. Jesus healed many sick and demon possessed people. Not everyone who says they are a Christian is, so you cant just listen to someone even if they hold a position that is supposed to be a Christian if it isn't in line with what the Bible teaches. I dont know much about Roman Catholicism, but from what I do know, there are teachings in the "Roman Catholic Church" that are not Christian, and in the past there were people who lead the catholic church that certainly did not show a reborn lifestyle.

    If the person is not trying to tell people about Christianity, then they are indeed trying to spread worship of demons, so it would be a huge help to tell people about Christ, and a huge hurt to tell them about otherwise.

    Read the Bible and seek the Lord, He will show the truth to those sincerely seeking

    Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
    (Mat 7:6-8 KJV)

    - jason
    You can bet that if you came into my room with tht attitude, not only would I order you out of my room, I would report you to admin. and to the propter authorities for violating my civil rights.

    "To everything there is a time and a season."
  2. by   tvccrn
    Suesquatch,

    I was replying to a post made by GardenDove about why non believers are so disturbed by something they don't believe in. That's why the quote was above what I posted.

    I myself wasn't pointing to any one person on here.

    tvccrn
  3. by   GardenDove
    I think people were thinking of in the public forum, for instance atheists who can't stand it if a prayer is recited at a football game. This thread has been very civil. Most non-believers mind their own business, but some get lawyers and try to remove any aspect of religion from the public view. I responded to another post about that, hence my comment.
  4. by   GardenDove
    As far as baptizing a stillborn, if it brings comfort, fine, but it's theologically incorrect. You can't baptize a dead person.
  5. by   SuesquatchRN
    Quote from GardenDove
    As far as baptizing a stillborn, if it brings comfort, fine, but it's theologically incorrect. You can't baptize a dead person.
    Well, Mormons can, I know. Dead pets, too.

    I agree that imposing one's beliefs on a patient is morally wrong.
  6. by   caroladybelle
    Quote from TazziRN
    Again....I live and work in an area where the Catholic population is very large, and it's often a safe bet to assume the family is Catholic. Would I do this if I were in another area? I don't know. I was taught to do this when I first started nursing, by my first employer, and parents were grateful.
    I understand where you are coming from....but please, please remember, that area/name/appearance/culture does not necessarily = religion.

    I am red headed, pale, blue eyed, have a name associated w/ the Kennedys, Raniers and have lived in many "Catholic" areas. I get "placed" by many as being of Irish descent. But I am Jewish.

    (and you really do not want to know how many have made antisemetic comments have been made around me - because someone did not know - nor how many "Christian" white power fellows sought to date me because of my appearance, not knowing my heritage)

    Please remember even in Hispanic areas, that there are Marranos (people of Spanish heritage - whose ancestors were forced to convert during the Inquisition - and some of whom have converted back). Frequently, they may obey some traditional hispanic cultural practices, have hispanic names, but may still believe in Judaism.

    How many people place the works/appearance of Modigliani as Jewish?

    And there are many people of Jewish heritage, with traditional names and appearance, and still live in "Jewish" neighborhoods/areas...but are not Jewish.

    And, yes, Steph, my question was directed to Gardendove, as to how s/he would feel, if someone came to him/her at their death bed and tried to get her to change her Christian religious beliefs to Islam/Judaism/Shinto/Wiccan, because as far as they were concerned s/he would go to "hell" otherwise. Because often those that are trying to convert neglect that those that they seek to convert have beliefs of their own that provide them with their own salvation and comfort.

    (which given that many other beliefs don't have hell and/or heaven - it is somewhat moot)
  7. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from caroladybelle
    I understand where you are coming from....but please, please remember, that area/name/appearance/culture does not necessarily = religion.

    I am red headed, pale, blue eyed, have a name associated w/ the Kennedys, Raniers and have lived in many "Catholic" areas. I get "placed" by many as being of Irish descent. But I am Jewish.

    (and you really do not want to know how many have made antisemetic comments have been made around me - because someone did not know - nor how many "Christian" white power fellows sought to date me because of my appearance, not knowing my heritage)

    Please remember even in Hispanic areas, that there are Marranos (people of Spanish heritage - whose ancestors were forced to convert during the Inquisition - and some of whom have converted back). Frequently, they may obey some traditional hispanic cultural practices, have hispanic names, but may still believe in Judaism.

    How many people place the works/appearance of Modigliani as Jewish?

    And there are many people of Jewish heritage, with traditional names and appearance, and still live in "Jewish" neighborhoods/areas...but are not Jewish.

    And, yes, Steph, my question was directed to Gardendove, as to how s/he would feel, if someone came to him/her at their death bed and tried to get her to change her Christian religious beliefs to Islam/Judaism/Shinto/Wiccan, because as far as they were concerned s/he would go to "hell" otherwise. Because often those that are trying to convert neglect that those that they seek to convert have beliefs of their own that provide them with their own salvation and comfort.

    (which given that many other beliefs don't have hell and/or heaven - it is somewhat moot)
    Ah, you are a redhead . . . . that's why I've always liked you.

    steph (mother of two redheads and married to a redhead).

    p.s. I appreciate your post - all valid points.
  8. by   burn out
    COnverting patients I believe does not belong at the bedside. However, if both the patient and the caregiver have the same faith and are sharing experiences about their faith I see nothing wrong..it would be like talking about child rearing or knitting or any other commonality the two share. Argueing one religion against the other or converting is a no no but as long as both parties are on common ground I see no problem if they pray together or partake in religous activities together.
  9. by   GingerSue
    the other day an elderly family member went into a convalescent facility and said to me "I hope they don't try to convert me"

    I would dread the thought that this person, or anyone requiring hospitalization/institutionalization would be in a situation where they would dread caregivers trying to convert them. That is so intrusive.
  10. by   GardenDove
    Quote from GingerSue
    the other day an elderly family member went into a convalescent facility and said to me "I hope they don't try to convert me"

    I would dread the thought that this person, or anyone requiring hospitalization/institutionalization would be in a situation where they would dread caregivers trying to convert them. That is so intrusive.

    Oh, that reminds me of my MIL who died this year at the age of 95. She had been a Unitarian all of her adult life, and the last 12 years of her life she lived in a fancy retirement apt and finally progressed to the assisted living section of this Baptist run facility.

    The last 3 years of her life her memory severely failed and she had a few repetitive themes that she liked to discuss. One of these was how much she loved where she lived, and how it was "run by ther Baptists, but they never say a thing!". She was a Unitarian to the core and was firmly against evangelism of any sort.

    I miss her, she was like a mother to me and sided totally with me when I divorced her lazy son. She was a math major back in the 30's (the only woman in the whole program), and went to China back in 1976, right after they opened it up to the west, without her husband who didn't enjoy traveling. She was so cool and also helped me through nursing school.
  11. by   CaLLaCoDe
    i guess the closest time i ever got to converting someone was when i was working as an aide at a rehab hospital while in nursing school and a patient of mine had her friend an rn visiting her...well this friend the rn was crying because her friend the patient was facing another operation to correct the hip surgery that went awry.
    anyway, once the rn friend left i told her the best thing she could do to get her away from the oh-pity-me crying was to pray for others...that this would possibly poor this healing energy through her and in the process help her to heal. all i can say that it helped her to center herself...
    when i told my mom whose a nurse about this she was apalled and said that i should watch any religious actions on my part at work...this is not an appropriate behavior...and so on and so forth. :+)
    [color=#483d8b]ps. i should add that the hospital that i work uses the motto"to carry on the healing ministry of jesus christ" ; so if i were to pray for someone at my hospital if they requested it would not be inappropriate.
    Last edit by CaLLaCoDe on Jan 11, '07
  12. by   bluesky
    The most I've ever done is participate in a prayer session for a dying patient. I may engage in a neutral conversation about a patient's beliefs if they initiate it.... i.e if they want to talk about their belief system, I will listen. If I survived an ICU stay in which I was sick enough for someone to try to move me to their religious beliefs, I would not be too happy about it.
  13. by   JeanettePNP
    Quote from caroladybelle
    Please remember even in Hispanic areas, that there are Marranos (people of Spanish heritage - whose ancestors were forced to convert during the Inquisition - and some of whom have converted back). Frequently, they may obey some traditional hispanic cultural practices, have hispanic names, but may still believe in Judaism.
    This is OT but I've met a number of families like this. It's cool that they still have memories of their Jewish heritage even though so many generations have passed.

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