what the heck are medical assistant schools doing ! - page 13

I'm an RN, in the ER. I know of 4 people who, in my opinion have been rooked into MA (medical assistant ) schools. Each on of these people have been told that , MA , can do everything an RN can do.... Read More

  1. by   woodym31
    I am in MA school right now at Remington College, I really want to be a nurse, What should be my next step in becoming a nurse, Its confusing with all this LVN, and CNA, and MA, I mean what do i have to do to step my foot in the door. I currently work at Baylor hospital fileing Medical records to put my way through college, Please I need advice.
  2. by   mkmm429
    If I were you, I would go directly to nursing school, it sounds to me that you prefer to work in a hospital setting and they usually do not hire MA's as I have said previously I am glad I went through my MA course and sat for the board to become certified, I was able to work in a private practice for a few years, however now that I am in an LPN class, none of the that schooling matters, you have to start at the beginning, so if you truly want to be an RN/LPN, I think you should just start right at the beginning. The fact that you know you want to be a nurse is different than when I went to MA school I was not sure. Good Luck!! You will love it!



    :hatparty::hatparty:
  3. by   lauralassie
    Quote from gerry79
    rn vs cma, lpn vs rn, rn vs rnbsn, when will these petty battle end? we all have vital roles in this big, bloated, over used and under funded healthcare system. yes some allied health care schools do dupe many into believeing that there are riches to be made after completion of whatever course/school. many of these schools cost more than major universities yet people flock to them for whatever reason. we as consumers need to be more educated, and use better judgment, when choosing to attend these institutions of higher learning. do the research, if school x is charging $30,000 to become a medical assitant and school y is charging $15,000 to become an rn (for the sake of argument), wouldnt it be wise to investigate the income potential for both professions? no one is forcing anyone into these schools the last time i checked.

    as for the ma doing more or as much as nurses, in some offices they do. but who is the real villian here. its not the nurse, or the ma. its the md practice thats paying ma well under market value for the job they perfom. in my area of the country nurses make about $30,000 a year more than ma's, if i were an ma i would be pissed! you are basically working for 1/2 the pay of an rn that you feel you have comparable skills to (i am not going to argue skill set, it has been mentioned enough). if your skills were really valued wouldnt the doctor's office pay you more? as an ma are you satisfied with your pay compared to other health care professionals? as i see it, ma's are woefully underpaid for what is expected of them. this thread has taken may twists and turns and has gotten quite ugly at times, but the bottom line is that we all play a vital role in the healthcare system and we all chose our career paths. if we want to hold another title, or place more letters after our last name, then i suggest that we all go back to school and earn it. jmhi

    the battle may end when your replaced by an ma in the hospital setting ! don't think it can't happen . nurses need to be pro active or the "big bloated under funded " health care system will keep going right down the tube! we as nurses need to watch out for ourselves, no one else is going to. ma's can be upset about their pay all they want. when they are the ones doing the deposition for court and taking the risk of loosing their license. with the state board then they will see a change in their pay. oh , but wait , they don't have to register with the state board ! they arn't licensed. my point about the schools and what they charge is, that many of these programs are state funded, many students go there on grants so that they can obtain skills inorder to get off of state aid. you and i are paying for this. if they are missleading the public , then there is a problem. not everyone has the ability or the technology to do research. they must trust what the school is telling them, the pitch the i've heard when i've done reasearch on what ma schools are telling people is a high pressure sale. they say things like, your skills are similar to an rn, we can't discuss the pay range until you come in and talk to us, oh...don't worry about the cost , you can take out a loan and when you go to work then you can pay it back. come in soon because the price will be going up soon. after calling several schools and asking questions, once i confronted them about what they were telling me and they found i was an rn , they ,backed off and said , just a min. i'll let you talk to my supervisor. this is not what we as professionals need happening any where! we need to stand up as patient advocates and for each other. also, if someone truly wants to be in the medical feild , lets be mentors not say ,well you got what you deserved, you didn't do the research. if there are bad eggs out there , lets get rid of them. not saying ma's don't have a place that is important. just saying beware! maybe other states are different. but, that's the way it is here.
    umpiron:
  4. by   cabkrun
    Quote from lauralassie
    I'm an RN, in the ER. I know of 4 people who, in my opinion have been rooked into MA (medical assistant ) schools. Each on of these people have been told that , MA , can do everything an RN can do. Not sure about you but I don't think the Cardiac Thorasic Dr's want an MA to care for a crashing patient at 2:00 am. My best freind completed an ma course, her med list MOM, TD, Botox(go figure why this is even on a med list for an ma)etc. As compaired to an RN list of inatrops, ca blockers etc..
    Any one have any ideas of how to stop the practice of ma schools comparing ma 's to Rn's?

    I remember being at an appt. with my GP, and the MA did my blood pressure, brought in my chart... the typical things I've seen them do. She mentioned she was trying to get into nursing school, since as an MA she does everything a nurse does anyhow. YIKES. (I'm not a nurse, but I know better).
  5. by   pagandeva2000
    Quote from lauralassie
    the battle may end when your replaced by an ma in the hospital setting ! don't think it can't happen . nurses need to be pro active or the "big bloated under funded " health care system will keep going right down the tube! we as nurses need to watch out for ourselves, no one else is going to. ma's can be upset about their pay all they want. when they are the ones doing the deposition for court and taking the risk of loosing their license. with the state board then they will see a change in their pay. oh , but wait , they don't have to register with the state board ! they arn't licensed. my point about the schools and what they charge is, that many of these programs are state funded, many students go there on grants so that they can obtain skills inorder to get off of state aid. you and i are paying for this. if they are missleading the public , then there is a problem. not everyone has the ability or the technology to do research. they must trust what the school is telling them, the pitch the i've heard when i've done reasearch on what ma schools are telling people is a high pressure sale. they say things like, your skills are similar to an rn, we can't discuss the pay range until you come in and talk to us, oh...don't worry about the cost , you can take out a loan and when you go to work then you can pay it back. come in soon because the price will be going up soon. after calling several schools and asking questions, once i confronted them about what they were telling me and they found i was an rn , they ,backed off and said , just a min. i'll let you talk to my supervisor. this is not what we as professionals need happening any where! we need to stand up as patient advocates and for each other. also, if someone truly wants to be in the medical feild , lets be mentors not say ,well you got what you deserved, you didn't do the research. if there are bad eggs out there , lets get rid of them. not saying ma's don't have a place that is important. just saying beware! maybe other states are different. but, that's the way it is here.
    umpiron:
    i have to agree with this...let's not throw the towel on mas and make them believe that they are not vital members of the health care team. those that are arrogantly misrepresenting themselves can be dealt with accordingly. i went to my private doctor a few days ago, and he had a medical assistant and i noticed that he introduced the ma to one of his elderly patients as a nurse. many people do not know what a medical assistant is, and by the time they explain it all to a person that clearly doesn't know it causes more confusion and takes up a great deal of time. i don't think that they should misrepresent themselves, but i think that many times, those that supervise them, such as the doctors, do not clarify what they actually are, and i often wonder if many doctors even really know what type of training makes one a nurse verses aides, etc...
    the schools do fool you...i remember calling one ma school for their ekg only course, and they tried to sell me the whole deal, how i can become a medical assistant, they are similar to lpns and i told them that i am already an lpn, and they actually hung up on me! how funny that was!!!
  6. by   cabkrun
    I don't think anyone wants to throw the towel on MA's. I think people just need to represent themselves as professionals, and CORRECTLY. I am sorry, an MA is NOT an RN. They do not have the same level of training. There is no way to argue that point any differently. Anyone thinking they are the same, and talking about "fairness" is just doing a disservice to the profession. It isn't about one being above or below another. It's silly to look at it that way. It's about people in the medical community making sure that their "customers" understand who is caring for them, and what they can appropriately be expected to do based upon their training.

    It ties into another big stink being raised right now about Nurse Practitioners introducing themselves to their patients as "Doctor". Granted, some may have a Doctorate, but no matter how one tries to spin, they are not an MD, and patients will get confused.
  7. by   pagandeva2000
    Quote from cabkrun
    I don't think anyone wants to throw the towel on MA's. I think people just need to represent themselves as professionals, and CORRECTLY. I am sorry, an MA is NOT an RN. They do not have the same level of training. There is no way to argue that point any differently. Anyone thinking they are the same, and talking about "fairness" is just doing a disservice to the profession. It isn't about one being above or below another. It's silly to look at it that way. It's about people in the medical community making sure that their "customers" understand who is caring for them, and what they can appropriately be expected to do based upon their training.

    It ties into another big stink being raised right now about Nurse Practitioners introducing themselves to their patients as "Doctor". Granted, some may have a Doctorate, but no matter how one tries to spin, they are not an MD, and patients will get confused.
    I agree with that...what made me say that is that this thread and many others that relate to this had gotten ugly, and I don't think that any nurse who posted on this thread has equated them to be the same. But what has to happen is that each and every person, from the physician, down, must introduce them as such, and that may decrease some of the confusion. It can be very tiresome to be the ONLY ONE to explain the difference to a patient, who only see the MA performing some of the skills as a nurse. They see the MA injecting vaccinations, drawing blood, maybe explaining some of the lab values, and maybe even teaching them about their medications. A savvy person would know, but there are so many others that don't comprehend the difference.

    I work with a physician's assistant in the coumadin clinic in my hospital, and I have turned myself blue by explaining to the patient who he is, and what they see is a person who is prescribing their medication, therefore, they equate him to an MD. No one else took the time to explain it, even the clinic manager. I'm not sure if the PA running that clinic even takes the time anymore, because, again, it is time consuming after awhile. The more they blend these roles, the more difficult it will be. We see nursing assistants that are certified to administer medications, insert foleys, do dressings, and the patients believe that they are nurses, also, because the traditional roles are almost non-existent...making this grey, no longer black and white.
  8. by   lauralassie
    Quote from pagandeva2000
    i have to agree with this...let's not throw the towel on mas and make them believe that they are not vital members of the health care team. those that are arrogantly misrepresenting themselves can be dealt with accordingly. i went to my private doctor a few days ago, and he had a medical assistant and i noticed that he introduced the ma to one of his elderly patients as a nurse. many people do not know what a medical assistant is, and by the time they explain it all to a person that clearly doesn't know it causes more confusion and takes up a great deal of time. i don't think that they should misrepresent themselves, but i think that many times, those that supervise them, such as the doctors, do not clarify what they actually are, and i often wonder if many doctors even really know what type of training makes one a nurse verses aides, etc...
    the schools do fool you...i remember calling one ma school for their ekg only course, and they tried to sell me the whole deal, how i can become a medical assistant, they are similar to lpns and i told them that i am already an lpn, and they actually hung up on me! how funny that was!!!

    well said. i dislike the bashing that goes on. my original thread was to discuss a solution as opossed to becoming a complaint forum. ma's are valuable to medicine. as a nursing professional i would like to hear from rn's about how we can be the solution as opossed to part of the problem.
  9. by   pagandeva2000
    Quote from lauralassie
    well said. i dislike the bashing that goes on. my original thread was to discuss a solution as opossed to becoming a complaint forum. ma's are valuable to medicine. as a nursing professional i would like to hear from rn's about how we can be the solution as opossed to part of the problem.

    i would begin by asking nurses what does the ma free them up to do. nurses have to follow the nursing process, and the ma may be part of the implementation portion, under even more predictable circumstances than an lpn. if the nurse assesses a person before vaccinations are given, for example, and deems it safe to administer, then, an ma can do so, it can free the nurse to be able to teach, deal with emergencies and other more pertinent details. i don't think that mas should do much teaching, that can be left to a nurse, however, there are ways to think of the positive. i saw another poster mention elsewhere in a similar thread that id badges be worn, even in the private office to differentiate the difference in title, and maybe for new patients, a written discription of 'who is who' in the office can be distributed to the patients to lessen the confusion. also, the physician should be taught to inform their patients of who is who as well. everyone has to be involved, and at the same time, include the ma in the process by telling her how valued their contribution is. we speak of rationales in nursing school and in our careers everyday. explaining to the ma why this has to be done, and the impact of their work can give them more value, while hopefully, helping them comprehend that there are reasons, legitimate reasons why the roles must be defined.
  10. by   cabkrun
    Quote from pagandeva2000
    I agree with that...what made me say that is that this thread and many others that relate to this had gotten ugly, and I don't think that any nurse who posted on this thread has equated them to be the same. But what has to happen is that each and every person, from the physician, down, must introduce them as such, and that may decrease some of the confusion. It can be very tiresome to be the ONLY ONE to explain the difference to a patient, who only see the MA performing some of the skills as a nurse. They see the MA injecting vaccinations, drawing blood, maybe explaining some of the lab values, and maybe even teaching them about their medications. A savvy person would know, but there are so many others that don't comprehend the difference.

    I work with a physician's assistant in the coumadin clinic in my hospital, and I have turned myself blue by explaining to the patient who he is, and what they see is a person who is prescribing their medication, therefore, they equate him to an MD. No one else took the time to explain it, even the clinic manager. I'm not sure if the PA running that clinic even takes the time anymore, because, again, it is time consuming after awhile. The more they blend these roles, the more difficult it will be. We see nursing assistants that are certified to administer medications, insert foleys, do dressings, and the patients believe that they are nurses, also, because the traditional roles are almost non-existent...making this grey, no longer black and white.

    Pagandeva, not trying to say I disagree with you. I understand where you are coming from completely. I don't know if confusion can ever be cleared up by just introducing oneself and their title. What I don't like to see is the petty arguments over "it's not fair that an RN thinks they are so superior to MA's". That kind of crap gets a little tiresome. It just seems silly to argue over such stuff.
    I respect your thoughts, and agree with you. I wonder if it is why some countries (like the UK) are hesitant about bringing in another health care provider (debates about PA's entering practice in the UK) because altho they want to address the shortage of health care professionals, introducing yet another level of practitioner might just be too much.
    I apologize if you misread my intentions.
  11. by   pagandeva2000
    Quote from cabkrun
    Pagandeva, not trying to say I disagree with you. I understand where you are coming from completely. I don't know if confusion can ever be cleared up by just introducing oneself and their title. What I don't like to see is the petty arguments over "it's not fair that an RN thinks they are so superior to MA's". That kind of crap gets a little tiresome. It just seems silly to argue over such stuff.
    I respect your thoughts, and agree with you. I wonder if it is why some countries (like the UK) are hesitant about bringing in another health care provider (debates about PA's entering practice in the UK) because altho they want to address the shortage of health care professionals, introducing yet another level of practitioner might just be too much.
    I apologize if you misread my intentions.

    Hi, Cabkrun, I wasn't offended by anything you stated:spin: , and I agree that the confusion will not lift by a simple introduction, mainly because of what I mentioned earlier, the BLEND of duties that is steering away from traditional roles. I suffer from that as an LPN...we are told that we are 'little pretend nurses...let's pretend nurses...etc...' yet, the state board of nursing states clearly that we are nurses. Our focus is different from an RN, but there is a blend of roles there as well...also causing confusion. LPNs hav learned the nursing process, we pass medications, hang IVs, do dressings, patient teaching,etc, but mainly for stable patients with predictable outcomes. The RN can assess, deal with unstable clients with unpredictable outcomes, learned additional skills, and such...but because of the similar roles, one can become EASILY become confused. To then add a CNA that can pour medications and do some of the same care that an LPN can do is...as you said, may be too much. But, these titles do exist, and it has to start somewhere, in my eye. I don't want to devalue anyone...whether they got ripped off in MA school or not...they have the job. And, while the patient may be naive as to who is treating them, the practitioner, may it be an MA, LPN, RN, PA, or MD, should not practice in arrogance, and pretend they are something they are not, because it is NOT SAFE. I have seen nursing assistants deal with tube feedings, for example...add a wrong feeding and not see the ramifications of doing so, because they were not taught WHY. You can imitate a behavior, but without understanding WHY, harm may come to the patient. I don't know what the answer is...I would like to see a result that does not devalue the person that is employed in any position. Thanks for clarifying your feeling...just know that I, too, understood what you were stating, and again was never offended.:spin: :spin:
  12. by   cabkrun
    Pagandeva,
    thanks for the kind reply. I really think you make a couple of valid points. First off, the devaluing has to stop. The comments about LPN's are just catty and childish. I don't understand why a person secure in themselves would ever say such a thing. There is obvious value to the role, and what you talk about in terms of the differences between LPN and RN make a lot of sense. Secondly, you hit it on the head when you talk about not practicing in arrogance. It may get tiring, but it is important that a patient understands that an MA is not a nurse, a NP or PA is not an MD, etc. It ties into expectations from the patient, as they may believe they are not getting appropriate care, when in reality they are asking the wrong person. And, you are right... for someone to practice outside their scope of practice because they "feel they can" is NOT SAFE. I agree, a result that does not devalue a role, yet clearly defines that role would be nice. The devaluing has to stop with the different providers. When people start cat fighting about roles and fairness, etc. it becomes about them and not about the patient.
  13. by   ann945n
    Quote from studentnurseCB
    I have seen these commercials on TV too. I have seen schools that you have to pay alot of money and go for 2 years to become a CNA. The local nursing homes have paid 2 week training for CNA's. It is a shame that these schools get away with this. I wonder what they could possibly be teaching a CNA for 2 years?
    WOW are you kidding me 2 years to be a CNA?? i took a 6 week course for 400 dollars sheeshh

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