What nursing shortage???? - page 2

We hear all of this news about nursing shortages affecting all states, and all areas of nursing. There are literally hundreds of open nursing positions in my geographical area. So, why is it that I... Read More

  1. by   Karotte
    So, in the world of nursing, which jobs tend to be the most attractive and popular?
  2. by   Elisheva
    The main refrain I always heard was stay off the floor and find a unit. However, you'll learn a variety of skills on a med-surg floor; the training is invaluable. The units usually require some additional skill sets, which add to your experience, your resume and your hirability. Or, so I hear.
  3. by   Jules A
    Quote from Karotte
    So, in the world of nursing, which jobs tend to be the most attractive and popular?
    Good question, giving you a bump.
  4. by   neetnik461
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Karotte
    So, in the world of nursing, which jobs tend to be the most attractive and popular?
    I haven't been a nurse that long (1 year) but from what I have seen, maternal/newborn (especially postpartum/mother-baby) and pediatrics seem to be popular nursing positions that are more difficult to secure positions in.

    My initial desire as a new grad was to get a job in either L & D or postpartum. I did my practicum on a postpartum floor of the hospital system I knew I would be working for (because they paid my senior year of college and I owed them a 1 year work commitment in exchange). When seeking a job the spring/summer before I graduated (in 8/05) there were absolutely no postpartum or L & D job openings at all (and this is a big hospital system). I applied and interviewed for a job on the high-risk OB floor and was told I was up against 12 other candidates (needless to say I didn't get the job). I ended up in ICU and am actually glad about that now.

    Even though maternal/newborn and/or pediatrics seem to be the "scarcer" more popular nursing jobs,there are "peaks and valleys" regarding supply and demand. Just a couple of months ago several L & D, postpartum and neonatal ICU positions became available at our hospital. So, I think alot of it has to do with timing.
  5. by   llg
    Quote from Karotte
    So, in the world of nursing, which jobs tend to be the most attractive and popular?
    It can vary greatly in different places and different times. Below is a list of reasons (just me brainstorming) about why one job might be more popular than another at any given institution.

    1. It has more popular scheduling options. Some outpatient units don't work nights, weekends, holidays, etc. Some places offer special packages for night shift so that people don't have to work nights if they don't want to, etc.

    2. It has better pay.

    3. The unit managers and educators are nicer and/or more competent.

    4. The patient population is more pleasant to work with. (That's why a lot of people gravitate towards maternal/child.)

    5. The phyical environment is more attractive ... prettier ... etc.

    6. The staff is friendlier. The preceptors are friendlier. The staff is less burned out, etc.

    7. The unit is better staffed. (See #6 above).

    8. The physicians are friendlier.

    9. The local nursing school instructor who teaches that specialty does a better job of teaching than the other instructors. In the process, she recruits her students into that specialty.

    Do you see what I mean? There are a lot of factors that influence why a particular job might be more desirable than another -- and those factors will vary. When a shortage hits, the least popular jobs will be hit hardest. The more popular jobs will be easier to fill.

    llg
  6. by   NCVegRN
    I am a new grad, but an older one with work experience so I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

    Forget the recruiters! Especially if they aren't an RN. All of my instructors are saying this and my fellow students and I are finding this to be largely true. At one hospital system the recruiter told me for weeks there were no critical care positions. But I kept hearing otherwise. One of my favorite instructors confirmed this and gave me the name of a high up nurse in critical care at the hospital. I called her and got a great response. She directed me to a nurse manager getting ready to hire. I interviewed and got offered a position. It helps to cultivate a relationship as well - introduce yourself (phone or in person) to the nurse manager of a unit you want. Show initiative and it pays.

    All the instructors I really respect say nurses have to stick together and help each other. Recruiters often get bonuses for filling hard to fill positions - ever notice how many try to convince you to apply for a unit you have said repeatedly you aren't interested in? : )

    Stephanie
  7. by   Jami RN
    Recruiters often get bonuses for filling hard to fill positions - ever notice how many try to convince you to apply for a unit you have said repeatedly you aren't interested in? : )
    I've given advice to struggling job seekers both on the message boards and with private messages. I usually try to be helpful and offer positive solutions when responding to posts, but this topic really strikes a nerve with me, so I'm just going to let it fly -- I'm not responding to any one post, but to all of the "There must be no nursing shortage if I can't get hired" posts.

    I am a recruiter and an RN at a 432 bed non-profit community hospital. Prior to coming here I was a traveler for several years and worked at a few other great hospitals, so I have lot's of practical floor experience as well. In addition, I'm in the process of relocating and have just accepted a new job offer with a great health system -- actually, I've yet to decide on which position to accept, as I've been offered positions on several units at two of their hospitals. I applied for positions at 5 hospitals and was offered positions at each of them.

    Have any of you ever considered that there may be a shortage, but maybe the hospital just doesn't want to hire YOU? I can tell you from my recruiting experience that nothing turns recruiters or managers off more than a know-it-all, entitled, "I'm going to tell you what job you'll hire me for" RN. These types of nurses tend to be rude, show up in inappropriate attire, be unprepared for interviews, demand more money than new grads are being paid and expect special treatment and accomodations. My hospital couldn't be short enough of nurses to hire someone like that. When people present with a negative, entitled attitude, we could care less what their experience level is or how many positions we need to fill, we aren't going to let them get a foot in the door. And yes, we do pass the word of mouth when we have a negative encounter with someone. In fact, even if you're rude or unpleasant to our HR receptionists on the phone, we will find out and communicate that to managers. Our managers respect our opinions, and going around the recruiter directly to a manager does not work in the applicant's favor -- in fact, we give one warning and if you can't follow the instructions we give to not contact managers directly, we assume you can't follow directions and we don't want you. And if the hospital requires an electronic application, don't submit a resume or call to "schedule an interview," because you can't be bothered to fill out the application. I have turned away nurses with 20+ years of specialty experience in a hard-to-fill area because they had a bad attitude.

    And regarding the above quote, every recruiter I know works on salary because we travel a lot. We don't get bonuses to fill hard-to-fill positions. You are misinformed. Yes, things take time and recruiters may not get back to you as quickly as you'd like. There are many JCAHO regulations regarding the hiring of clinical personnel and a lot of hoops to jump through to get people from the application process to the unit. Managers use recruiters because they don't have the time to do everything themselves and they aren't experts in employment law.

    Whew! Rant over!

    My advice is to look at yourself objectively. If you waited too long to take the NCLEX and all the new grad positions are gone, take a position in the community until the next round of new grad positions open. Working in a nursing home won't kill you and you'll gain valuable experience you can apply to any future position. Seek some information about how to polish your interview skills or application -- there are a lot of great books on the subject. Know that you are applying for a job, and no one is obligated to hire you. Ask for assistance politely and conduct yourself in your job search as you would in a patient care area. Be flexible about which unit you will work on and which shift you will take. Be humble and appreciative of others' help and advice.

    OK, I'll hop off my soapbox and return to lurker status. Sorry if I've offended anyone, but it was good to get that off my chest.

    Jami
  8. by   catlady
    Quote from Jami RN

    Have any of you ever considered that there may be a shortage, but maybe the hospital just doesn't want to hire YOU? I can tell you from my recruiting experience that nothing turns recruiters or managers off more than a know-it-all, entitled, "I'm going to tell you what job you'll hire me for" RN. These types of nurses tend to be rude, show up in inappropriate attire, be unprepared for interviews, demand more money than new grads are being paid and expect special treatment and accomodations. My hospital couldn't be short enough of nurses to hire someone like that. When people present with a negative, entitled attitude, we could care less what their experience level is or how many positions we need to fill, we aren't going to let them get a foot in the door. And yes, we do pass the word of mouth when we have a negative encounter with someone. In fact, even if you're rude or unpleasant to our HR receptionists on the phone, we will find out and communicate that to managers. Our managers respect our opinions, and going around the recruiter directly to a manager does not work in the applicant's favor -- in fact, we give one warning and if you can't follow the instructions we give to not contact managers directly, we assume you can't follow directions and we don't want you. And if the hospital requires an electronic application, don't submit a resume or call to "schedule an interview," because you can't be bothered to fill out the application. I have turned away nurses with 20+ years of specialty experience in a hard-to-fill area because they had a bad attitude.
    I agree with you completely regarding nurses who come in with an entitlement mentality. I've heard nurses say that the interviewer should just accept them showing up in scrubs or jeans or unprepared for the interview, because the hospital should be glad to get them. They need to step down from the pedestal they've climbed on.

    However, I do disagree with your comments about the electronic application. Let me tell you, as a computer-savvy person who embarked on a major job hunt this summer, the electronic application world is Nursing Hell. They are impossible to navigate, difficult to manage when the question boxes don't fit your experiences, and infuriating when they demand private information like SSNs without even being a secure site. They seem to go into a black hole. And in the end, when I finally would get an interview, what did the interviewer want? My resume, of course. And when I got hired, I had to write out all the same information in longhand for their background check. I think it's just another barrier to screen people out. I know that I posted a resume on monster.com, got an email from a hospital recruiter that they'd like me to fill out their application form online--which took me forever, of course--only to have their little feedback form tell me within fifteen minutes that my application was no longer being considered. Say what????

    Nobody's that special, but neither is any employer. We're all a little bit special, though.

    Quote from Jami RN
    And regarding the above quote, every recruiter I know works on salary because we travel a lot. We don't get bonuses to fill hard-to-fill positions. You are misinformed. Yes, things take time and recruiters may not get back to you as quickly as you'd like. There are many JCAHO regulations regarding the hiring of clinical personnel and a lot of hoops to jump through to get people from the application process to the unit. Managers use recruiters because they don't have the time to do everything themselves and they aren't experts in employment law.
    I don't know if recruiters get bonuses for hard-to-fill positions, but I know for a fact that more than once, I've been pushed into a clinical area because that's where they were short-handed, rather than it being where I wanted to work. This happened to me both as a staff nurse and a travel nurse.

    Managers may not know employment law, but it's really frustrating to sit with a recruiter and discover they can't answer any questions beyond pay and benefits. They will promise you things the manager can't deliver, and they will tell you things that are just plain wrong. The recruiter in my current job gave me downright false information regarding pay during orientation. I mentioned in another thread about the recruiter who was really nasty, trying to keep me out of ICU by telling me I was unqualified, when it turned out all three ICU managers with whom I eventually interviewed had no qualms about my qualifications.

    Recruiters can't help applicants get jobs. They can stop applicants dead in their tracks, though.

    During the last cycle when nurses were being laid off, had their benefits slashed, and were told they should be abjectly grateful to be employed, I wondered how our nurse recruiter still had a job. But she did.

    Quote from Jami RN
    My advice is to look at yourself objectively. If you waited too long to take the NCLEX and all the new grad positions are gone, take a position in the community until the next round of new grad positions open. Working in a nursing home won't kill you and you'll gain valuable experience you can apply to any future position. Seek some information about how to polish your interview skills or application -- there are a lot of great books on the subject. Know that you are applying for a job, and no one is obligated to hire you. Ask for assistance politely and conduct yourself in your job search as you would in a patient care area. Be flexible about which unit you will work on and which shift you will take. Be humble and appreciative of others' help and advice.

    OK, I'll hop off my soapbox and return to lurker status. Sorry if I've offended anyone, but it was good to get that off my chest.

    Jami
    As I posted in another thread, new grads who start out in LTC often find it's the kiss of death when trying to move into acute care. It shouldn't be that way, as LTC is as challenging as anything out there, but it's the reality.

    Don't lurk! Come on out and play!
    Last edit by catlady on Sep 8, '06
  9. by   Jami RN
    Recruiters can't help applicants get jobs. They can stop applicants dead in their tracks, though.
    I agree with many of the things you say, Catlady. And having recently gone through the hiring process on the other side, I do agree that it is a time-consuming and sometimes frustrating process. I enjoy what I do and for the most part I enjoy helping people find the job that is right for them. I am blessed to recruit for a hospital that values long-term fit for both the unit and the employee and I realize that there are some recruiters and hospitals who look at the numbers instead of the individuals. I think it really helps to be an RN with lots of floor experience recruiting RNs. I have told quite a few nurses that I didn't think this hospital was the right fit for them -- that we just couldn't give them what they wanted and that they'd be better off going to a different hospital/city/area etc. I realize that not all recruiters are that honest.

    I disagree with your quote above, though. I have gotten nurses jobs -- when I meet a genuinely nice person that I know is a great nurse, I bust my butt to get them what they want. I've convinced managers to open positions specifically for applicants when they really didn't need to fill a position at that time. I really will go the extra mile for people who make a great impression.

    When I first came to HR, I was very offended because a lot of the people here have a bad attitude about dealing with nurses. After a few years, I totally understand where they are coming from. A lot of nurses are prima donnas who think the world owes them a living. I've never had a housekeeper, PT, Rad Tech, Doc, etc. be as rude and entitled as many RNs are. New grads amaze me -- many, many new grads graduate from nursing school and expect to walk in the door and name their price. My hospital can pick and choose which new grads to hire, so the ones with the bad attitudes quickly change their tune or they go work elsewhere in the community. I don't feel bad for them. My hospital actually hires nurses from nursing homes into the med/surg units and sees this as beneficial experience. Most new grads feel that nursing homes are beneath them, though.

    I have enjoyed being a recruiter, but won't be sad to return to the floor, either. I like matching managers and applicants and knowing who will fit where. I've enjoyed helping new grads get their careers started, and it is very satisfying to see new grads that I hired several years ago flourishing in their areas of specialty and conquering their goals. For every rude, entitled nurse, I've help 3 or 4 great nurses get great jobs and that feels really good. I just needed to vent because I feel like some people blame their woes on everyone but themselves, and instead of having some insight and introspection, they are quick to look every where but inside themselves for the solution to their problems.

    Jami
  10. by   NCVegRN
    Both of you have a lot of good points. I always wear a suit, am polite (and genuinely) to all I encounter in the process. I am probably one of the only people in my nursing school who knows our head janitor's name. I am enthusiastic, professional and open-minded. I have gone on interviews for positions I was pretty sure were not right for me, but I was willing to see. And - I have been offered every nursing job (and almost every other job in my past life) that I have interviewed for.

    Jami - You sound like a recruiter that cares. I alluded to the fact in my post that experiences were often better with recruiters that were RNs. I have never told one - this is the area I am going to work in or that you are going to hire me in. But myself and many of my classmates have experienced the situation of saying - I am looking for any of these several areas, but not this one. And that is the one the recruiter pushes for. Repeatedly. Particularly at one health system here. I would be thrilled to find out this is just in my area. But as I mentioned, many experienced instructors have told us the value of building a relationship in an area you want to work in. I have two friends getting ready to start from making a connection with the manager - while the recruiter had continued (until the offer was made) to say there were no positions, but that they should try X unit instead.

    Those people having trouble finding jobs should defintely look at their attitudes, their professionalism, all that they portray. But often being persistent and making useful connections don't hurt either.

    There is nothing wrong with anyone ranting (IMHO) as long as it isn't personal. It's enlightening to hear from a recruiter's side how much a sense of 'entitlement' many nurses have. Perhaps when the pay truly matches our worth, this will lessen? I have no idea! In the meantime, attitudes should be checked at the door before interviews. I would not want to work at a hospital that took just anyone, because of the shortage.
  11. by   mimimartina
    Hi, just reading over your ideas re job hunting, and as a LPN of 13 years, I have endured the "kiss of death" regarding beginning my career in LTC...got stuck there and finally turned to psych...when it got too dangerous (violent patients)...I turned to chemical dependency rehab...after that,,,,I have felt doomed. No experience is all I have heard. I am now in school taking my prereqs and hope to start AD program next fall. Hope I can get on the right foot first time around this time, as I am 49 yrs old and don't have the same time chances as a 20 yr old would. I definitly know I will not start in LTC, under any circumstances, as I know for a fact, I was stereotyped and left there. Suggestions for starters after graduation are gladly accepted!
  12. by   Rosa2Little
    Quote from Jami RN
    Our managers respect our opinions, and going around the recruiter directly to a manager does not work in the applicant's favor -- in fact, we give one warning and if you can't follow the instructions we give to not contact managers directly, we assume you can't follow directions and we don't want you.
    Jami
    Are you assuming, or are you 100% certain that the applicant did not submit an on-line application as well? I have used on-line applications and have found that in some institutions they are received in a timely manner, and at others... well, to give you an example, I just heard last week from a certain non-profit for whom I had filled out an on-line application to perform volunteer work. The e-mail response indicated that they had just received my "inquiry" -- if I was still interested, they would mail an application to me. That's 4 months after I filled out an electronic version!! I agree with the previous poster who called some of these electronic portals "black holes".

    The goal for any organization is to hire qualified, dependable, long-term employees. What does it matter whether they are hired by H.R., the manager, or by personal referral? While I do not believe in blatant disregard for any person in any position within an organization or the over all disregard for rules, I do believe there is nothing to be gained in a my way or the highway mentality.

    Great topic & discussion!
  13. by   weirdRN
    I think b/c I have started my carreer in a LTC environment I was sterotyped. Even though I went on to get my RN.

    Many may nay say that. However, I met with a Nurse Adminstrator who flat out told me that!

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