What Is the Problem With These Nurses? - page 2

I've always thought the "nurses eating their young" phenomenon was somewhat of a misnomer, since we're not their children and I know students can impose a lot of burdens on nurses. But, when you're... Read More

  1. by   sunnyjohn
    Quote from VickyRN
    Whether management realizes it or not, the experience of nursing students during clinicals at their hospital is the most powerful recruitment tool there is - FOR or AGAINST. If the nurses on a floor are welcoming and helpful to the students, then the graduate nurses will choose that place for their first job, even if the pay is less than somewhere else, or they have to drive 30 miles. If the unit has a "toxic" feel, then graduates will avoid that place like the plague, even if the management is offering all sorts of pay incentives and bonuses, and the place is "local." Trust me, I know this from experience
    HALLELUJAH!!!!
  2. by   Sheri257
    Quote from Tweety
    I do cringe when I hear students say "I'm doing most of their work, what's their problem............" But I won't go there.
    Well, I would be interested in what you have to say about this.

    If she's taking one patient, and I'm taking all the rest, I would think that would qualify as doing most of the work. I'm giving all the meds, doing all of the charting, answering all the call lights and doing a lot of the CNA work as well for all except one patient.

    What haven't I been doing and what are my shortcomings? I've haven't done much with the admits and discharges themselves but, once the admits come in I've taken over the patient care from there. I need to do a much better job of staying on top of MD orders but, it's kind of been tricky since she tends to want to deal with the docs herself. I also need to do a much better job of staying on top of labs, procedures, etc.

    I definitely need to dig into the charts more for those things but, it's also been difficult because she also wants all of the work done early. If a med is due at 9, she really wants it given at 8, etc. And, of course, there's always a patient from hell who's riding the call light every two seconds, she wants that call light answered every single time. Of course, that's what we're supposed to do but ... when the patient keeps claiming they're hitting the call light by accident and you know they're just doing it for attention ... it wastes a lot of your time during the day.

    Meanwhile, I'm supposed to take vitals, take patients to the bathroom, etc. which, normally would be an aide job but I'm expected to do a lot of it. And, when you get a patient with non-stop diarrhea all day, and you're expected to change them constantly with little or no help ... I'm lucky to get the rest of the meds, charting, etc. done.

    No question that I need to do a much better job with a lot of things but, quite frankly, when it comes to MD orders and things coming in, that means I have to go to the nurses station and deal with her. And, because I don't know everything about how their system works, I know I'm going to get some snide remark for not knowing something regardless of the fact that I've never dealt with it before. Maybe it's not a good excuse but, at this point, I try to avoid her as much as possible because I know I'm going to hear something degrogatory regardless of whether I deserve it or not.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Nov 29, '06
  3. by   Sheri257
    Quote from VickyRN
    Whether management realizes it or not, the experience of nursing students during clinicals at their hospital is the most powerful recruitment tool there is - FOR or AGAINST. If the nurses on a floor are welcoming and helpful to the students, then the graduate nurses will choose that place for their first job, even if the pay is less than somewhere else, or they have to drive 30 miles. If the unit has a "toxic" feel, then graduates will avoid that place like the plague, even if the management is offering all sorts of pay incentives and bonuses, and the place is "local." Trust me, I know this from experience
    I don't think management, in many cases, cares. They dump on the staff and the staff, in turn, dumps on the students and/or new staff... because they can. I don't think it occurs to any of them what the long term consequences are.

    I've been in those better hospitals and, you're right ... I'll take the lower pay and I'll drive 30 miles or more. No problem.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Nov 29, '06
  4. by   Tweety
    Quote from lizz
    Well, I would be interested in what you have to say about this.
    :typing
    I'm still not going to go there. Let me just say that I'm currently precepting a student. Currently she's up to four patients. I don't turn my patient load over to her and do nothing and have it easy with her doing all my work. Most of the time we are together, but after two weeks I am sending her in to do things alone. (She does not do CNA work, and I'm very clear with my CNA's about that. In fact she wanted to bathe a patient and I had to talk her out of it "you have too much to do right now and you're here to learn the RN role, with might include a bath, but not today, we're behind as it is".) Our last day together we both worked our butts off (I had 8 patients that day as we were short staffed, in fact I had to take the heavier load - "because you have help", but I won't go there either. ). I have not had an easy day yet during this preceptorship, not one easy day yet after 3 weeks of her "doing my work". Maybe it's me.

    Also, I'm taking the time to grill her "why are you giving that med to this particular patient?", "what is unique about an appy patient that you need to assess?", "what are your priorities for this morning, and no the bed bath isn't one of them?", "we're giving 200 cc's and we have to infuse in 30 minutes, how many cc's per hour are you going to set the machine for?". I hope she doesn't come here and say "what's up with the constant harrassment". LOL

    I'll leave it at that because that's not the issue and I'm not going to highjack your thread, especially since your situation is probably entirely different. .

    Again, I wish you well with this situation, please don't feel that as a licensed person I'm taking the nurses side, because I'm not. Her/his behavior is not acceptable. As a preceptor and an instructor wannabe I'm insulted to be associated with the likes of "them kind". But also please don't spread the myth that students "do all of our work". You can flame me, because I can take it.
    Last edit by Tweety on Nov 29, '06
  5. by   Tweety
    Quote from VickyRN
    Whether management realizes it or not, the experience of nursing students during clinicals at their hospital is the most powerful recruitment tool there is - FOR or AGAINST. If the nurses on a floor are welcoming and helpful to the students, then the graduate nurses will choose that place for their first job, even if the pay is less than somewhere else, or they have to drive 30 miles. If the unit has a "toxic" feel, then graduates will avoid that place like the plague, even if the management is offering all sorts of pay incentives and bonuses, and the place is "local." Trust me, I know this from experience
    You would think management would "get this", but as Lizz says, they are blissfully unaware and don't care. Their loss.
  6. by   EmerNurse
    I've always been a little annoyed with the "you can take XYZ because you have help" when I've had a new student or precepting a brand new GN/RN.

    In order to allow them to learn properly, things take longer, are MORE work, not less, and I hate feeling like I'm not giving them the best learning they can get, but stuff HAS to be done on time.

    "Have help"? Yeah, right - not at the beginning!

    Ok - just a peeve of mine.
  7. by   Tweety
    Quote from EmerNurse
    I've always been a little annoyed with the "you can take XYZ because you have help" when I've had a new student or precepting a brand new GN/RN.

    In order to allow them to learn properly, things take longer, are MORE work, not less, and I hate feeling like I'm not giving them the best learning they can get, but stuff HAS to be done on time.

    "Have help"? Yeah, right - not at the beginning!

    Ok - just a peeve of mine.

    A SERIOUS pet peeve of mine. The last time I worked I had to float at 3pm and in order to finish up took experiences away from the student, as it was I arrived at 4pm to my 3pm assignment. :angryfire

    Don't get me started, I've already hijacked the thread enough.
  8. by   BrnEyedGirl
    [FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium]Lizz,. so very sorry to hear about your experience so far,....as someone posted earlier, you really should mention this to your instructor,..our students all fill out an evaluation at the end of the semester and yes we all know that a positive student experience is the number one way to get new grads to our unit!! Don't get discouraged, it does get better,..I hope I don't offend anyone here,.but Nursing school sucks,...it is alot of repetitive, busy work designed to teach a way of thinking,...you get so much information in such a short time,...just the basics to pass boards,(you will learn the rest when you start working)..the key here is learning the nursing process, to learn how to observe, what questions to ask, how to process information and see the whole picture,...you will always run into rude nurses as we are people too,..blow them off and go on,.it is a waste of your time focus on these people, look around and you will find someone that makes you say "hey,,that's the kind of nurse I want to be!" watch them,.listen to how they speak to thier patients, how they talk to Dr's, how they chart, what they do in an emergency, how they treat thier co workers,..keep asking questions until you understand the "why?" of everything you do,..use your resources, you have instructors , other students, nurses, aides, pharmacy, etc,..hang in there! It does get better I promise! Best of Luck to You!!
  9. by   Sheri257
    Quote from Tweety
    I'm still not going to go there. Let me just say that I'm currently precepting a student. Currently she's up to four patients. I don't turn my patient load over to her and do nothing and have it easy with her doing all my work. Most of the time we are together, but after two weeks I am sending her in to do things alone. (She does not do CNA work, and I'm very clear with my CNA's about that. In fact she wanted to bathe a patient and I had to talk her out of it "you have too much to do right now and you're here to learn the RN role, with might include a bath, but not today, we're behind as it is".) Our last day together we both worked our butts off (I had 8 patients that day as we were short staffed, in fact I had to take the heavier load - "because you have help", but I won't go there either. )

    I'll leave it at that because that's not the issue and I'm not going to highjack your thread, especially since your situation is probably entirely different. .

    Again, I wish you well with this situation, please don't feel that as a licensed person I'm taking the nurses side, because I'm not. Her/his behavior is not acceptable. As a preceptor and an instructor wannabe I'm insulted to be associated with the likes of "them kind". But also please don't spread the myth that students "do all of our work". You can flame me, because I can take it.
    I understand your point completely. But this is where things get mixed up in these threads. I never said I did "all" of the work. I said I did "most" of the work.

    I should have made this clear from the beginning but, I'm precepting as a soon to be new grad. This is my last clinical so, I'm supposed to be doing most of the work, and I am. That's why I don't think it entirely a "myth," at least in my case. The criteria is to do at least 80 percent of the work for most of the patients and, with few exceptions, I'm pretty sure I'm doing that unless I'm missing something.

    Most the of RN's I've worked with also insisted that I not do CNA work but, not this RN. And, before we started, the instructors made it clear that they didn't want to hear from any RN's that we were primma donna students who didn't want to do any aide work.

    But, at the same time, we're also supposed to be delegating. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It's no win situation, obviously, since it's more difficult to meet expectations trying to do both jobs and, also, trying to learn how to be an RN.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Nov 29, '06
  10. by   Tweety
    Quote from lizz
    I understand your point completely. But this is where things get mixed up in these threads. I never said I did "all" of the work. I said I did "most" of the work.

    I should have made this clear from the beginning but, I'm precepting as a soon to be new grad. This is my last clinical so, I'm supposed to be doing most of the work, and I am. That's why I don't think it entirely a "myth," at least in my case. The criteria is to do at least 80 percent of the work for most of the patients and, with few exceptions, I'm pretty sure I'm doing that unless I'm missing something.

    Most the of RN's I've worked with also insisted that I not do CNA work but, not this RN. And, before we started, the instructors made it clear that they didn't want to hear from any RN's that we were primma donna students who didn't want to do any aide work.

    But, at the same time, we're also supposed to be delegating. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It's no win situation, obviously, since it's more difficult to meet expectations trying to do both jobs and, also, trying to learn how to be an RN.

    :typing

    Good enough. No further comments, just want you to know I read your post. Good luck!
  11. by   geekgolightly
    We have a couple nurse interns on my floor. I began working there a couple months ago, and the few times I have worked with the nurse interns, they have belittled and berated me, which I found to be bizarre. I think they are picking up on the attitudes of the nurses who have been working there for a long time. It's "ok" to beat up the "new" nurses. I was just really taken aback when a nurse intern rolled her eyes while transferring a patient, and yelled at me from across the fresh post-op "UH NO YOU DO NOT DO IT LIKE THAT> JUST FOLLOW MY LEAD."

    I was so shocked, I just did whatever she told me to do and then got out of that room.

    The next weekend, she informed me that a patient of mine was nauseated. As I was standing at the PYXIS getting the meds a few minutes later, she popped her head in the med room and said "UM, if you dont have time to take care of your patient, just give me the drug and I'll push it."

    I was appalled. Not only that she really is a beast, not just a one off, like I was hoping, but that someone has most likely been allowing her to push IV meds. I mentioned this to the nurse manager, in case the nurses on the floor were actually allowing her to push IV meds.
  12. by   MultipurposeRN
    Where are the instructors in these situations? When I had students I tried to put them with nurses who didn't mind students and also nurses that could teach them a lot. I was pretty fortunate in finding staff who fit both criteria. I figured they weren't going to learn as much from a staff member who wasn't keen on them, though I couldn't always avoid it. Then I just had to tell the youngns that there were people who didn't care for students and we'd just deal with it the best we could. I was a pretty visible and available instructor, though. I know not all programs were able to have instructors stay on one floor most of the time.
  13. by   Mulan
    Quote from geekgolightly
    We have a couple nurse interns on my floor. I began working there a couple months ago, and the few times I have worked with the nurse interns, they have belittled and berated me, which I found to be bizarre. I think they are picking up on the attitudes of the nurses who have been working there for a long time. It's "ok" to beat up the "new" nurses. I was just really taken aback when a nurse intern rolled her eyes while transferring a patient, and yelled at me from across the fresh post-op "UH NO YOU DO NOT DO IT LIKE THAT> JUST FOLLOW MY LEAD."

    I was so shocked, I just did whatever she told me to do and then got out of that room.

    The next weekend, she informed me that a patient of mine was nauseated. As I was standing at the PYXIS getting the meds a few minutes later, she popped her head in the med room and said "UM, if you dont have time to take care of your patient, just give me the drug and I'll push it."

    I was appalled. Not only that she really is a beast, not just a one off, like I was hoping, but that someone has most likely been allowing her to push IV meds. I mentioned this to the nurse manager, in case the nurses on the floor were actually allowing her to push IV meds.

    I think I'd have to follow up on that too. That is totally inappropriate, for you to be spoken to that way.

    Unfortunately, I have seen that some new nurses get paired with a preceptor that has an attitude and they become (or maybe they were like that to begin with?) just as nasty as the one that is precepting them.

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