What if all docs had to nurses first????? - page 2

Really! I mean think about it..... what problems would this alleviate?? A friend and I were talking about this today. After hearing and reading so much about difficult doctors, wouldn't it be... Read More

  1. by   KaroSnowQueen
    We have one doc who was a nurse before she was a doc. She is a royal witch!!!! She is a pulmonary doc, and nine tenths of the pulmonary docs at our hospital are generally hateful, so don't know if she's trying to fit in with the boys or just regularly hateful! She has no compassion for patients or patience for nurses.
  2. by   menetopali
    GracefulRN,

    that is a wonderful idea. while going through the entire training cycle to become a nurse and then a doc would be...counterproductive (IMHO) for all doctors for the reasons noted earlier, i do think that docs need a better idea of what we do and how we do it. i think a eight or twelve week rotation as a nurse would be a great expierience.
  3. by   kcsun3
    I guess I'll be the lone voice of dissension...but what purpose would that serve? I guess I'm looking at motive (not of the original poster - just regarding the idea in general) - would this be to "show those mean doctors how hard it is to be a nurse?" Doesn't that sound, well, petulant and childish? I do not mean any disrespect, but it just feels co-dependent and needy to me.

    The medical model and the nursing model are entirely different approaches to healthcare - often complimentary, but still distinct disciplines. A required pre-med degree in nursing doesn't make sense, although some choose that route and it works for them. But I don't think anyone would suggest that doctors must first be occupational therapists or pharmacists so they can understand how hard those jobs are. And you don't see physical therapists clamoring for understanding so that everyone will play nice in the sandbox.

    If we focused as much efforts on developing our own profession as we do on trying to get approval from others, we'd be further ahead. Just my two cents...
  4. by   sbic56
    kcsun

    You make a lot of sense, but what alot of us are saying is that it would be nice to be respected for what we do as nurses. It'd be nice if docs realized they couldn't practice without us. We have to work alot closer with doctors than any of the other areas of healthcare, so we desire a relationship that is positive. That said, I do acknowlege that nurses are a codependant bunch in many ways. We could stand to work on changing that.
  5. by   menetopali
    from where i sit the benefit would be greater understanding of what nursing functions are and are not. i agree the 'look how hard we work' motive isn't a good one, but the 'this is what we do and don't do' motive would be positive. it would decrease, i hope, the number of confrontations with docs who expect you to perform duties that are outside your scope of practice. for example we had a doc that wrote the following order: "iv fluids prn" expecting the floor to determine when they were indicated and what fluids to run and at what rate to run them at. the charge, who related this to our unit, had to call the doc and explain that the order was to vague to be followed within the nursing scope of practice.
  6. by   MryRose
    Quote from kcsun3
    I guess I'll be the lone voice of dissension...but what purpose would that serve? I guess I'm looking at motive (not of the original poster - just regarding the idea in general) - would this be to "show those mean doctors how hard it is to be a nurse?" Doesn't that sound, well, petulant and childish? I do not mean any disrespect, but it just feels co-dependent and needy to me.

    The medical model and the nursing model are entirely different approaches to healthcare - often complimentary, but still distinct disciplines. A required pre-med degree in nursing doesn't make sense, although some choose that route and it works for them. But I don't think anyone would suggest that doctors must first be occupational therapists or pharmacists so they can understand how hard those jobs are. And you don't see physical therapists clamoring for understanding so that everyone will play nice in the sandbox.

    If we focused as much efforts on developin

    g our own profession as we do on trying to get approval from others, we'd be further ahead. Just my two cents...
    I'm glad you chose to post your opinion... it serves a great purpose for me... learning about people and gaining a better understanding of how the relationships work in the medical profession.

    Interestingly enough (to me anyway), I thought that the posts would be more fact based regarding procedures or orders along with a little comedy relief. I should have stated my objective better in my initial post

    I apologize for creating a situation that anyone would feel was petulant, childish or needy.

    It was never my intention to create a post that would generate negative feelings towards one another.

    Hugs,

    MaryRose
    Last edit by MryRose on Apr 2, '04
  7. by   NursesRmofun
    I think we'd have doctors, but they would be a totally different kind of individual on average than the ones that usually become docs now!
    Last edit by NursesRmofun on Apr 2, '04 : Reason: typo
  8. by   kcsun3
    Quote from MryRose
    I apologize for creating a situation that anyone would feel was petulant, childish or needy.

    It was never my intention to create a post that would generate negative feelings towards one another.

    Hugs,

    MaryRose
    MaryRose,

    No need to apologize - yours was a sincere post, and did not create any negative feelings at all. I hope my post did not make you feel that way, but if it did, please accept my apologies. I was responding more to the frustrating oppressed group mentality that seems to pervade the nursing profession. I would continue, but I fear it would develop into a long, drawn out rant...

    Thanks for posting, MaryRose *hugs*
  9. by   Shiva_Las_Vegas
    Quote from Roland
    On top of that your average doctor would be 40 before they "graduated" from their residency. Also, don't forget that many of the "atheist", pinheaded, scientifically orientated docs look down upon much of nursing. If they even touched nursing they would consider themselves unclean!
    I'm confused about the "atheist" statement.....Not sure what that has to do with doctors vs. nurses philosphies.......
  10. by   fergus51
    I actually find most residents get respect for nurses real fast where I work (if they didn't come that way to begin with).

    I actually don't think it would make a difference. In my experience the jerk docs have no memory of the time before they became gods (thank god they are few and far between, most of our docs are great). It's like the way that some experienced nurses have no patience for new nurses, as though they were never new themselves. They just popped out of the womb with all the knowlege they needed to be nurses
  11. by   menetopali
    perhaps the difference is that the docs i see are all well past their residency. i'm glad to hear that the docs at least get a clue as residents, even if they forget.
  12. by   Spidey's mom
    sbic, fergus, kcsun, menetopoli . . .all great points. I don't see the need.

    Of course you could turn it around and have nurses do a rotation or two with docs to make them a bit more understanding about where the docs are coming from.

    It is a two-way street and there are jerks and wonderful people on both sides.

    steph
  13. by   dianah
    I also think a rotation shadowing a nurse (2 wk or a month or something) might open a lot of eyes, and contribute towards a more respectful and open communication between the two disciplines. It certainly can't hurt.
    Of course, there will always be those residents who will roll their eyes andsimply tolerate the experience, without ANY hoped-for enlightenment taking place (a la, "you can lead an horse to water but you can't make him drink."). Conversely, there would be perverse nurses who would persecute the residents on said rotation and set the stage for ill will and poor communication, setting any advancements in cooperative workplace behaviours back 100 yr . . .
    Too much for my little brain . . .
    Yes, steph, it IS a 2-way street, as you so aptly posted above!

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