What can I do with my BSN that Assoc. RN's can't? - page 6

I just graduated with my BSN this spring. I'm working as a PCA2/Graduate Nurse at a local hospital until I take my boards... I am taking my HESI tomorrow at the college I graduated from. This is an... Read More

  1. by   efy2178
    I have been an RN for amost 20 years and until my current position I have never been compensated for having a BSN. That does not mean it does not make me a better, educated nurse, nor does it mean that ADN's and diploma nurses are not good nurses. I have, however, landed a position that requires a BSN and heart care experience and I couldn't be happier.
    You get what you give and will learn if you keep applying yourself. I got into the habit early on to go home and look things up I didn't know. I have very good clinical skills (I am a certified OR nurse, have been a certified GI nurse and now work in a heart clinic in electrophysiology--definitely the most difficult to learn!). You keep adding on. Getting a couple of solid years on any medical surgical floor is a great way to go. It gives you foundation and I must say there were many LPN's as well as some fantastic ADN's who gave their time and expertise to teach me. I personally believe any RN who goes for higher education will be better off no matter what kind of education. Home learning, another degree, a certificate, getting involved in a nursing group of any kind. The best advise if to ask why and get the answer and build on your knowledge.
  2. by   SmilingBluEyes
    I only wish education were compensated respected in nursing the way it is in other professions. Until this happens, many people will figure "why bother". Too bad. Education is so valuable...be it BSN, BA, BS, Master's and on......Too bad the ONLY bachelors that means anything at all (and little at that) IS the BSN. But that is another thread. I also agree all forms of education deserve respect...continuing education included.
  3. by   judymai
    In California you have to have a BSN to become a public nurse or a WOCN, also have to have a BSN to be a Director of Nurses in a college that teaches LVN's and RN's.

    I find it hard to believe that the NLN or the California state board of nursing would accept a BSN for the director of a nursing program. Although I have taught in both LPN and ADN programs with a BSN, it has been because of the faculty shortage and a qualified MSN applicant had not accepted the job. The directors of all three programs have had a Masters or PhD. and most faculty have a MSN (or are working on one - as I am now). Just to teach in a program (even in LPN programs) you have to have at least a BSN and clinical experience.

    I have taught in both Idaho and Oregon.
  4. by   Destinystar
    well believe it. our state(ca) regulations only require an rn to have a bs excuse me not even a bsn to be a don in an lvn program. of course it is up to each institution to elevate those standards to whatever degree they want. in the community colleges the don's always have msn's or phd's. a state regulation and an institution requirement may vary. if you were able to teach with a bsn then there is no way you could have legally been in the position unless the state requirement allowed you to do so. sounds like it was your schools policy to hire msn but not a state regulation. like i said in california an rn with a bs can teach in those programs, but in florida their state policy is bsn.the state sets the minimum requirements. when nurses are discussing issues here it would be helpful for them to mention what state they are refering to because regulations vary from state to state.
    Quote from quilter
    in california you have to have a bsn to become a public nurse or a wocn, also have to have a bsn to be a director of nurses in a college that teaches lvn's and rn's.

    i find it hard to believe that the nln or the california state board of nursing would accept a bsn for the director of a nursing program. although i have taught in both lpn and adn programs with a bsn, it has been because of the faculty shortage and a qualified msn applicant had not accepted the job. the directors of all three programs have had a masters or phd. and most faculty have a msn (or are working on one - as i am now). just to teach in a program (even in lpn programs) you have to have at least a bsn and clinical experience.

    i have taught in both idaho and oregon.
  5. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    My best friend is an agency RN in Kansas.

    She tells me that in KS, LPNs are often the DONs in nursing homes. In fact, KS does not even require that nursing homes have even one RN on staff.

    They must have an RN on the premesis just 40 hrs a week. Many nursing homes use agency nurses to fill this requirement.

    My friend's agency has called her to go to nursing homes in her area and just do care plans, monthly summaries and other paperwork. The nursing homes tell her they don't really need an RN for anything, but meeting the 40/wk state requirement.

    At one facility, the LPN DON decided she didn't like the title "licensed practical nurse." So, she got badges made for all her LPNs that say "LPN- Licensed Professional Nurse."

    BTW- my friend has been an RN for 20+ years, but she did not graduate from any nursing program. She challenged the boards in her 3rd year of a 4yr RN program, back in the days when this was allowed.
  6. by   judymai
    Quote from destinystar
    well believe it. our state(ca) regulations only require an rn to have a bs excuse me not even a bsn to be a don in an lvn program. of course it is up to each institution to elevate those standards to whatever degree they want. in the community colleges the don's always have msn's or phd's. a state regulation and an institution requirement may vary. if you were able to teach with a bsn then there is no way you could have legally been in the position unless the state requirement allowed you to do so. sounds like it was your schools policy to hire msn but not a state regulation. like i said in california an rn with a bs can teach in those programs, but in florida their state policy is bsn.the state sets the minimum requirements. when nurses are discussing issues here it would be helpful for them to mention what state they are refering to because regulations vary from state to state.
    actually i did note at the bottom of the post that i have taught in both idaho and oregon. in both of these adn programs it has been difficult finding qualified msns to fill faculty roles. each year the colleges needed to prove that they had advertised and interviewed possible candidates. until i began my msn program (i will finish next summer), i could only be given a year-to-year contract. just in case anyone doubts that we have a faculty shortage. - i worked that way for 12 years.
  7. by   bsnecu99
    Quote from doodlebug914
    I just graduated with my BSN this spring. I'm working as a PCA2/Graduate Nurse at a local hospital until I take my boards... I am taking my HESI tomorrow at the college I graduated from. This is an 'exit' type of exam that we have to pass before taking our boards. I'm feeling down about not being able to pass and have this huge fear that I am not going to pass my boards!

    Amidst my fear, I am questioning taking a role as an RN on floor nursing. It seems like most of the RN's on my floor have an associates degree, and I am questioning if I should be doing something different since I have my bachelor's? The pay is the same for an Assoc. or BSN, which doesn't make any sense to me. Just wondering what else is available that I might not be looking for, or what your opinions are!?

    Another BSN student who just graduated as well was speaking with me, and said she wonders if the Assoc. degree RN's laugh thinking that we have wasted our time getting our BSN when we get the same pay/same responsibilities. Is this a big issue?

    Thanks!
    Miranda
    Hey Miranda! I don't think you are alone in wondering what the heck you must have been thinking. I also fell for that ridiculous degree nonsense. I already held a B.A., which got me nothing at all and I really wanted to just go to school one year and get my LPN. No, my PhD husband said, 'no one will respect you unless you have that degree!' Well, five years later he is still watching his back so I don't get him! I spent four years and thousands of dollars to make the same as a two year RN. Not only that, but each year I make less! What other profession that requires a college degree reduces your wages every year? Only in nursing! Not only that but the ADN nurses think you are too uppity and they won't talk to you and diss you every chance they get. Besides, the hospital wants people that can start an IV on a balloon and most BSNs haven't even started an IV before they graduate! So who cares? What else can you do with BSN? Well, work for a Vet Administration hospital, most of which require BSN. You may also get lucky enough to work as an admissions nurse for a home health (that job is terrible, I can tell you that). Other than that, I'm not sure. Some junior colleges want BSNs for educating ADN students but for the most part they really prefer the MSNs. Wish I could give you more information, but after five years of BSN, now I'm totally unemployed. Don't you think that makes me mad? Think very well, my friend.
  8. by   zenman
    In my opinion, the development of the ADN degree has been one of the worst things that another nurse could do to our profession. Many other healthcare "professionals" (PTs, OTs, Social workers, dietitians, etc.) have at least a BS or even Masters degree. (In fact, most professional occupations require 4 years of education.) Yet nurses, who must actually know more about the patient, can have less education. Is something wrong with this picture?

    I hear a lot of comments about how diploma and ADN graduates have more clinical (that translates to less "knowledge") than BSN graduates and can "hit the ground running." That's not the issue so drop that argument. No new graduate can function well. I know of no profession where new grads are expected to "hit the ground running." The question is "where are they down the road."

    In most professions more education translates to more money over a lifetime. Whether that does or does not do so for nursing is an internal problem of our profession.

    I'm not talking about any positive personality traits of any one individual, ie., one ADN nurse being far superior to another BSN nurse. I'm talking across the board. Any course a person takes in college increases your "knowledge" level, even if it is a liberal arts course. The person with the most knowledge wins. "Knowledge is power." Critical thinking skills are lacking in many nurses and is greatly improved by more education (knowledge).

    Some other benefits of education include:

    1. better health (for your children also)
    2. reduced crime
    3. wider knowledge gap
    4. more open-minded (oh,no, this seems to be a problem in nursing)
    5. less moralistic
    6. more rational thinking
    7. more cultured
    8. more integrated
    9. more consistent
    10. less authoritarian
    11. less materialistic
    12. less prejudice
    13. greater knowledge of world affairs
    14. greater social status
    15. more social activism

    I'm sure there are more and if I had more education I could think of them!
  9. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from zenman
    In my opinion, the development of the ADN degree has been one of the worst things that another nurse could do to our profession. Many other healthcare "professionals" (PTs, OTs, Social workers, dietitians, etc.) have at least a BS or even Masters degree. (In fact, most professional occupations require 4 years of education.) Yet nurses, who must actually know more about the patient, can have less education. Is something wrong with this picture?

    I hear a lot of comments about how diploma and ADN graduates have more clinical (that translates to less "knowledge") than BSN graduates and can "hit the ground running." That's not the issue so drop that argument. No new graduate can function well. I know of no profession where new grads are expected to "hit the ground running." The question is "where are they down the road."

    In most professions more education translates to more money over a lifetime. Whether that does or does not do so for nursing is an internal problem of our profession.

    I'm not talking about any positive personality traits of any one individual, ie., one ADN nurse being far superior to another BSN nurse. I'm talking across the board. Any course a person takes in college increases your "knowledge" level, even if it is a liberal arts course. The person with the most knowledge wins. "Knowledge is power." Critical thinking skills are lacking in many nurses and is greatly improved by more education (knowledge).

    Some other benefits of education include:

    1. better health (for your children also)
    2. reduced crime
    3. wider knowledge gap
    4. more open-minded (oh,no, this seems to be a problem in nursing)
    5. less moralistic
    6. more rational thinking
    7. more cultured
    8. more integrated
    9. more consistent
    10. less authoritarian
    11. less materialistic
    12. less prejudice
    13. greater knowledge of world affairs
    14. greater social status
    15. more social activism

    I'm sure there are more and if I had more education I could think of them!
    zenman, with all due respect, your so called advantages of education are your opinions and some of the benefits you profess are far fetched...? more rational thinking?, less materialistic, more cultured, less prejudice, etc......

    the only (but not to be underestimated) truth is the broader knowledge base. and while i will never dispute the gen'l advantages of furthering anyone's education, for some it's hard to justify when a bsn makes the same $ as the adn on the floor. if i were to return to school, it would be for my personal satisfaction and little to do w/professional upgrading as i enjoy being a floor nurse. if i wanted to pursue mgmt. then that's where bsn/msn is required.

    leslie
  10. by   jeepgirl
    that is sooo stupid.
    i had over 60+ hours and was ready to go into a bsn program... but chose to go to an ADN program because it was close to home, it worked out better for me because i have a child, i had more family support, ect.
    i have had every class a bsn grad does... algebra, statistics, chemistry, zoo ect. so i am stupid and a lesser nurse because i have an ADN degree?
    when we (adn and bsn) both took two years of a "clinical" major? compared to the closest BSN school, do you know that my ADN program had 4 more formal papers (and I mean, these were thirty page papers, had to have 10+ sources cited, ect) than that program required. what about our clinical time? we spent twice as much time at clinical than that school did.

    i got my 60 hours done in one year (thats CLEP, summer session, winter intersession, and taking a more than full load during the regular semester). i worked my butt off. So actually, I got done in three years what it takes some BSN kids to get done in four +.
    and then, when i go on to get my BSN this next school year, guess what? it'll only take me 2 semesters. so i will have been practicing for an entire year.... but will still have my BSN in a total of four years.

    in short, i am trying to say that myself, and other ADN nurses i know have as much or more of a knowledge base than a lot of BSN grads. and thats not even counting experience.

    but for some reason, BSN's are professionals and we (ADN nurses) are not?

    I believe its that license that makes us professional.. if we are able to get that RN license, it doesn't matter if we're diploma or MSN.

    If any one says that ADN's don't measure up to other nurses, this is what I have to say: whatever. and if anything ever happened to you and you were brought to a local ED and it was a major emergency... you'd bettter expect that a few of those nurses working to save your life are ADN nurses.
    Last edit by jeepgirl on Jul 10, '04
  11. by   zenman
    Posted by earle 58: zenman, with all due respect, your so called advantages of education are your opinions and some of the benefits you profess are far fetched...? more rational thinking?, less materialistic, more cultured, less prejudice, etc......
    Sorry; few were my opinions but results of studies. Sorry, but I don't have the sources with me here.

    the only (but not to be underestimated) truth is the broader knowledge base. and while i will never dispute the gen'l advantages of furthering anyone's education, for some it's hard to justify when a bsn makes the same $ as the adn on the floor.
    And that's a problem with the nursing profession!

    if i were to return to school, it would be for my personal satisfaction and little to do w/professional upgrading as i enjoy being a floor nurse. if i wanted to pursue mgmt. then that's where bsn/msn is required.
    That's ok. A couple of years ago, I was working as a staff nurse (with 2 masters...3 if you count my wife!). Did my increased knowledge level help me in caring for a diverse group of patients? Have my non-nursing courses in psycho-therapy, management, martial arts...even shamanism give me an edge over other nurses? What would be the level of care provided by 2 twins, one with an ADN and one with a PhD, both with 5 years of clinical experience?
  12. by   nursemike
    [QUOTE=zenman]In my opinion, the development of the ADN degree has been one of the worst things that another nurse could do to our profession. Many other healthcare "professionals" (PTs, OTs, Social workers, dietitians, etc.) have at least a BS or even Masters degree. (In fact, most professional occupations require 4 years of education.) Yet nurses, who must actually know more about the patient, can have less education. Is something wrong with this picture?

    The problem, I think, is in the transition from nursing as a trade to nursing as a profession--i.e. it's an ongoing process. We wouldn't think of an Associates Degree in Law, but ADN and diploma nurses aren't a new development. As I understand it, these were more the norm than a BSN when nursing was simply a trade.
    One of my instructors discussed a distinction between a Registered professional Nurse (BSN) and a Registered technical Nurse (ADN). That seems valid, and might be a distinction that should be formalized in the NPA. But I think it goes unnecessarily far to make a BSN the entry-level degree. There's room for CNA's and LPN's, and IMHO there's still plenty of room for ADN's.
    I can't speak for anyone but me, but I strongly suspect I will get a lot more out of my BSN after I've had a year or two working as an ADN, and I'm certain I will be in a much position to afford it. Then again, I'm entirely comfortable with practicing an honest trade. I wonder if we don't get a little carried away by the whole "profession" issue.
    My dad tells of a television interview he saw, in which a child prodigy said he thought his father might feel uncomfortable about the son's abilities, since he (the father) "works with his hands." The interviewer asked what the father did, and the son replied, "He's a neurosurgeon."
  13. by   RNIAM
    "Registered technical Nurse (ADN). " No, sorry their is nothing in that name that I like. I worked for three years to get my ADN. I will not allow my hard work to be simplified in that way. The only thing that separates my education from a BSN is one year of classes. Sorry but some business classes and a course in community nursing if not enough to change my professional status to that of a technician. I am all for compensating a person with a 4 year degree for the extra education however I would not support minimizing the effort and time I put in to get my Associates degree in such a way. That is why I intend to join the ANA. In this way my voice can be heard. Sorry to blow a little but that just got me going a little.

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