What can I do with my BSN that Assoc. RN's can't? - page 16

I just graduated with my BSN this spring. I'm working as a PCA2/Graduate Nurse at a local hospital until I take my boards... I am taking my HESI tomorrow at the college I graduated from. This is an... Read More

  1. by   Tweety
    Quote from Susy K
    My opinion: people use the NCLEX as the be-all-end-all of a nurse. NCLEX is a standardized test (which many nursing schools prepare you for - ie: teaching to the test) and represents novice safe practice. The NCLEX is the bare-minimum needed to practice. I certainly don't hold it up as any sort of benchmark.

    Secondly, from an educator's point of view, a bachelor's degree is much more than reciting Shakespeare for heaven's sake. And I fully disagree that a nurse is a nurse is a nurse. Just like a cardiologist is not an obstetrician is not a radiologist. Why do we generalize nurses but not physicians?
    Good point. What's interesting is that to be an MD they all have to have the same education. To be an RN you don't. Nursing is unlike medicine and other "professions" in that respect.
  2. by   Tweety
    Originally Posted by HisHands
    In my humble opinion, if an ADN nursing student sits down to take the NCLEX-RN exam next to a BSN student, and is fully qualified to pass the exam and be recognized and certified by the state, then they should be recognized for that knowledge base. Think about it. What is the real major difference between the two degrees. In MI at the school I'm at, the BSN degree has a few more core classes, but mostly it's 40 credits of gen ed's. I'm sorry, but when is the last time you saw a nurse reciting Shakespeare as he/she was suctioning? My point... a nurse is a nurse is a nurse.

    ~Brightest Blessings~
    HisHands



    Rats, I should have gone to the schools where you are. The RN to BSN program I've been accepted to is nothing but two years of nursing courses I didn't get in my ADN program. Some of course are more in detail like a whole semester of assessment, and physiology. And a whole course on family nursing and one on cultural nursing, stuff that was only touched on in my ADN program. But they all are nursing courses, not general ed courses.

    Is it going to make me a better nurse at the bedside? I hope so.
  3. by   leslie :-D
    if one is pursuing a bsn, i would certainly hope that it IS all nursing courses, and not gen'l ed., as then it would be rather futile. and righto tweety, you would certainly hope that all those add'l nsg courses would make one a better nurse. no disputing that. but to be an outstanding nurse, we just can't focus on the science of nsg. but the art and science. there are many nurses that have the both down pat, w/o their bsn's. they click w/their patients, they further their knowledge base at home, they aspire and take pride in being damn good at what they do.

    so although ideally it would be wonderful to unify nursing entrance requirements with a minimum of a bsn, it still could never take away from all the adn nurses that have been tops in their field, which also included bsns. so i just won't automatically profess that bsns are better nurses than adns. but it does help one in furthering their career, giving them more options.
  4. by   Tweety
    Quote from earle58
    if one is pursuing a bsn, i would certainly hope that it IS all nursing courses, and not gen'l ed., as then it would be rather futile. and righto tweety, you would certainly hope that all those add'l nsg courses would make one a better nurse. no disputing that. but to be an outstanding nurse, we just can't focus on the science of nsg. but the art and science. there are many nurses that have the both down pat, w/o their bsn's. they click w/their patients, they further their knowledge base at home, they aspire and take pride in being damn good at what they do.

    so although ideally it would be wonderful to unify nursing entrance requirements with a minimum of a bsn, it still could never take away from all the adn nurses that have been tops in their field, which also included bsns. so i just won't automatically profess that bsns are better nurses than adns. but it does help one in furthering their career, giving them more options.


    I have to agree with you. BSNs are not better nurses by virtue of the fact they have a BSN. I was taking exception to the statement the only difference between a BSN and an ADN were a few general ed courses. I work with a few BSN graduates that are very disappointing in comparison to some of us ADNs, and visa versa. One can't generalize, which is why I tend to stay out of the are BSNs better nurses than ADNs. The answer in my experience is no, a bad nurse is a bad nurse regardless of the letters behind his name.

    In my experience, in looking at the RN to BSN program, I can only become a better nurse personally with more education. But is it going to give me the art of compassion, empathy and understanding? Is it going to enhance my critical thinking. No.

    Personally, I don't have the confidence I'll ever get my BSN because I'm not sure I want to work that hard to get it. But I do however support that the BSN should be the minimum standard for the RN, that they should take a different NCLEX than the ADNs. But how to make that happen, and can it or will it happen, I don't have any answers.
  5. by   UCLARN
    All nurses ARE professionals. But apparently others do not think that way. I don't know if it partly due to having three roads in which to become a nurse or not having a BSN as the entry level.


    Quote from jenniferhelene
    Why do we have to be on par with other professions? Nursing is its own profession. I don't see the need to be part of the stereotypical ideal of what a professional "is". All nurses are professionals. Period.
    ...Jennifer...
  6. by   UCLARN
    You probably did have that in your diploma program. Since the diploma program is 3 years in length, I'd like to assume that they didn't go into extreme detail. Each of those courses listed are one semester at least in the BSN program.

    Quote from suzy253
    I have all of the above in my diploma program.
  7. by   UCLARN
    WHen the original poster wrote this, I don't think it was his intention to ask about each and every clients schooling level. When he said "education level" I think he meant that to mean health educational level. Now seriously, you didn't think that he asked people "Do you have a bachelor's?" All of us assess our patient's health educational level and needs. Now c'mon... dig a little deeper and see what his statements really mean.

    Quote from earle58
    education level is on the assessment form, yet if you find it therapeutic to degrade your patient by asking his educational level before you decide on what and how to teach, then all the college degrees in the world cannot teach you certain elements of intelligence.

    and reread my post. i never asked you if teaching was important. i was incredulous that you would ask your patients' their educational level before teaching them. you do collect all pertinent info on admission but you DON'T belittle your patient by questioning their academic abilities before deciding on your approach to teaching. just your daily interaction and 1:1 with them should lead you in the right direction.

    furthermore one can possess a wealth of knowledge and degrees, but still lack 'intelligence'. i am very supportive of all who want to better themselves....but i do not respond well to condescending attitudes very well.
    please, save it for those that give a damn.
  8. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from UCLARN
    WHen the original poster wrote this, I don't think it was his intention to ask about each and every clients schooling level. When he said "education level" I think he meant that to mean health educational level. Now seriously, you didn't think that he asked people "Do you have a bachelor's?" All of us assess our patient's health educational level and needs. Now c'mon... dig a little deeper and see what his statements really mean.
    please reread all the posts before citing your observations. thanks.
  9. by   zenman
    Quote from MLOS
    I had zero interest in joining this fray, but this particular assertion stuck out at me. So I ran it by a judge that I know. She assures me that in her courtroom, once it had been established that an RN defendant held valid licensure, any line of questioning regarding how the RN became licensed vs. how other nurses become licensed would be quickly squashed, because the defendant had been licensed by the state in accordance with policies established by the state. She tells me that medical malpractice cases tend to hinge on specific actions undertaken by defendants, whether or not defendants were licensed or certified to complete the tasks in question (scope of practice), and whether or not defendants followed their institution's policies and procedures.
    "In her courtroom" is the key words here. Expert witness are even questioned as to their background/experience, etc. so in another courtroom things might be different. A license means that you have passed minimum standards and are safe too practice in a certain state. If an ADN grad harmed a patient by doing something that was not covered in their curriculum, a jury is going to feel for the injured patient. Better to be safe.
  10. by   zenman
    Posted by earle58: ZENMAN , w/all due respect, you're just not getting it. let me try to make you understand.
    I wish you would!

    when someone is collecting various information on admission, it is NOT the same as asking your pt. their educational level before you decide on how you're going to teach them.
    I'm even more confused! Asking their educational level should occur during the initial assessment. That is before you teach them! DC planning starts at admission. For a minute there I thought I was losing my mind so I went and looked in Bate's Physical Assessment and History Taking and sure enough it said to determine the patients "last level of schooling."

    You also made a comment that asking people their educational level was degrading. Last time I checked, nurses were stripping people butt naked and sticking things in them and up them. Is this less degrading?

    if you cannot see the difference, then all the degrees in the world just can't teach you some things.
    Are we clear now??

    you also can be proficient in your discharge teaching yet many pts. return to the hospitals secondary to noncompliance, and seldom it's because of not understanding their instructions. it is typically a host of other etiologies.
    That is true but not always the case, as I have seen quite a few enter ICU or the grave because they failed to understand what they were taught. My wife, a masters-prepared school teacher, is amazed at this thread. She told me to ask if you guys were comfortable with teachers being able to teach with only 2 years of college. (I think I've already brought that up earlier.) She also mentioned that she was a mentor for a new teacher who sent some assignment home with a student so his parents could help him. Unfortunately, the teacher assumed that the parents could read. There was a lot of turmoil and embarressment over this and my wife told the new teacher never to assume anything, not even that the parents could read. In our field, people can die.

    if you are indeed familiar w/therapeutic communication, it would behoove you to exercise it on this board, rather than attempting to belittle your colleagues with your very weak references, your innuendos and LOL emoticons.
    Look, I'm a funny guy! It runs in the family; my dad had a cardiac arrest in the doctor's office while telling the doctor jokes. So I can't help it! Humor is good...check it out. That's why my BP a few minutes ago down in the ED was 117/62 and my pulse 58.

    furthermore, your 1-15 list was bogus and nonverifiable. very suspect.
    I guess you did not visit the links I posted. I didn't make them up!!

    [quote]bottom line, bsns are certainly a noble way to go but unless you're pursuing managerial, at this time it is not mandatory,nor is a reflection of any nurse's capabilities. [quote]

    The BSN was not created to just assume management positions but to "manage" the complex care of patients. ADN grads are "educated" to manage identified patient problems. Why are people so hung up thinking that BSN is for management only?

    your preaching and antagonizing hasn't convinced me one iota...i think we need to work on your therapeutic communication.
    I'm trying to "slap some of you upside the head" till you come to your senses. My "preaching" as you call it has a purpose...to safeguard patients and improve the profession. I thought that you do not determine your patients educational level. If that is so, your practice is very dangerous and needs to stop. If you do assess your patients educational level, occupation and many other factors, then I applaud you!
    Last edit by zenman on Jul 18, '04
  11. by   zenman
    Quote from Susy K
    My opinion: people use the NCLEX as the be-all-end-all of a nurse. NCLEX is a standardized test (which many nursing schools prepare you for - ie: teaching to the test) and represents novice safe practice. The NCLEX is the bare-minimum needed to practice. I certainly don't hold it up as any sort of benchmark.

    Secondly, from an educator's point of view, a bachelor's degree is much more than reciting Shakespeare for heaven's sake. And I fully disagree that a nurse is a nurse is a nurse. Just like a cardiologist is not an obstetrician is not a radiologist. Why do we generalize nurses but not physicians?
    Thank you for saving me some time! I posted earlier how non-nursing courses can improve your nursing career. Thank you very much!
  12. by   zenman
    Quote from 3rdShiftGuy
    Good point. What's interesting is that to be an MD they all have to have the same education. To be an RN you don't. Nursing is unlike medicine and other "professions" in that respect.
    True; that's why MDs don't have threads like this one! They can argue, however, that "my school was better than yours!" Or that an MD is better than a DO.
    Last edit by zenman on Jul 18, '04
  13. by   zenman
    Quote from 3rdShiftGuy
    Rats, I should have gone to the schools where you are. The RN to BSN program I've been accepted to is nothing but two years of nursing courses I didn't get in my ADN program. Some of course are more in detail like a whole semester of assessment, and physiology. And a whole course on family nursing and one on cultural nursing, stuff that was only touched on in my ADN program. But they all are nursing courses, not general ed courses.

    Is it going to make me a better nurse at the bedside? I hope so.
    Go for it, 3rdShiftGuy. Now 3rdShiftGuy can help a lot of you guys with more than an opinion because he is "there." Keep it up!

close