we've been having heated - but not yet angry - discussions - page 8

regarding the provision of medical services to undocumented residents - illegal aliens. As students, we've had the opportunity this semester to have clinical experiences that include being with... Read More

  1. by   mattsmom81
    No 'flame' here but I wish to present another viewpoint. The kind of reasoning above is why I can't support the Democratic party...they find it is always easier to pull in unrelated topic and emotionalize THAT than discussing a problem. What does the anti war sentiment have to do with the abuses of our social services and welfare system in our country, our ridiculously high taxes and the unsafe borders we now where where illegals are streaming in to cash in on our liberal social system (or worse)?

    I have family who works in customs, teaching and border patrol and what goes on is ridiculous, believe me. Most people who live close to our southern border and are in the know would likely agree with much of what I say.

    The illegals work for cash in my area so only pay sales tax when they purchase taxeable items. They live in rental properties and thus pay no property taxes (which is what supports schools and local public facilities in my area.) Did everyone here know our schools must educate their children too?? And provide bilingual educators? In my opinion these illegals are NOT innocent victims but are taking advantage. They cross the border to have their baby in our hospitals so their family can then demand welfare/citizen benefits. Become legal and obey our laws:no problem then, but the current abuse must stop, IMO. California seems to recognize this.

    Personally I am troubled our President is downplaying the seriousness of the problem and would like to see a harder line than he has proposed.

    The legal 'visitors' from other countries are a whole other issue and whole other danger to our nation. I would prefer to see our tax dollars go to protecting our country than to our inflated social services system, frankly. That is government's primary function IMO; to protect its citizens. somehow we've really got off track since the depression on what exactly our government is supposed to be doing.

    Not attempting to be argumentative here, but I feel that more conservative viewpoints have a right to be expressed in this forum as well, and hope that we can have civil discussions without resorting to the namecalling I've seen in the past.
  2. by   MryRose
    As nice as it would be to just share our healthcare with the whole world for free...in reality, there are only so many slices in a pie!

    The money to pay for all this has to come from somewhere. My vote would be to close the borders, stop paying for free healthcare and free education to anyone who is not a here legally. Get healthcare taken care of for our own citizens and then let's deal with the rest of the world.

    How far will your own income go if you do not budget and prioritize??

    I'm for militarizing our borders, and allowing migration with worker visas and or sponsorships. If the family is guaranteed support before entering the country, then come on in. Glad to meet ya. If not, then the truth is I can't afford for you to come.

    Our country cannot support the whole world..... like it or not, it's reality.

    For those already here, those with jobs and income to support their families should be allowed to stay. Those who don't, need to be shipped back. Anyone who crossed the borders illegally took the chance that they may get shipped back, so this shouldn't be a big surprise.

    Also regarding IRS and taxation...let me tell you how the scenario worked at a manufacturing compny I worked for. The workers take the maximum deductions possible out of paychecks ...... then after our company had submitted info to IRS for taxes, we would be notified that "XXXXX"'s social security card was invalid. Gee... guess who had already moved on to the next job! So he paid the minimal amount then could not be found to pay what he really owed.

    So YES they are cheating on paying their own fair share. I've personally seen it done. I would love to only be paying taxes at that rate! Oh yes.... state taxes on purchased goods.... whoopee. That certainly doesn't cover the costs of the social services and education we have to shell out for them.

    My husband teaches at a high school that is primarily hispanic with a large percentage of immigrant kids. The kids frequently miss many days of school (no not for working in the fields) and the parents are not involved. Truancy is a big issue and they feel that the education should be tailored to them an their schedules. The whole family is going to Mexico for a month so Junior misses school. When they get back, they expect the kids to have the same grade and to be able to start where they left off. It's amazing! And it happens all the time. There are the few kids who are really trying to get ahead in school, go to college etc..... but they are NOT the majority.
    Every year it gets worse and worse. Now the school takes 3 weeks off at Christmas because to many kids disappear for a month at that time!

    Living in an area that has a very large illegal alien population I see firsthand the effects. We won't even start talking about the number of pollution spewing, non-registered, illegally driven vehicles that you see. It's amazing, it truly is.

    Let those who are so certain that services to illegals be free step up and use all your money to sponsor families. I'm darned tired of shelling mine out. :angryfire

    MaryRose
  3. by   teeituptom
    And how could you close the borders

    I guess you could use some of the military

    just bring them home where they belong, dont keep them in Iraq and afghanistan
  4. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from MryRose
    As nice as it would be to just share our healthcare with the whole world for free...in reality, there are only so many slices in a pie!

    The money to pay for all this has to come from somewhere. My vote would be to close the borders, stop paying for free healthcare and free education to anyone who is not a here legally. Get healthcare taken care of for our own citizens and then let's deal with the rest of the world.

    How far will your own income go if you do not budget and prioritize??

    I'm for militarizing our borders, and allowing migration with worker visas and or sponsorships. If the family is guaranteed support before entering the country, then come on in. Glad to meet ya. If not, then the truth is I can't afford for you to come.

    Our country cannot support the whole world..... like it or not, it's reality.

    For those already here, those with jobs and income to support their families should be allowed to stay. Those who don't, need to be shipped back. Anyone who crossed the borders illegally took the chance that they may get shipped back, so this shouldn't be a big surprise.

    Also regarding IRS and taxation...let me tell you how the scenario worked at a manufacturing compny I worked for. The workers take the maximum deductions possible out of paychecks ...... then after our company had submitted info to IRS for taxes, we would be notified that "XXXXX"'s social security card was invalid. Gee... guess who had already moved on to the next job! So he paid the minimal amount then could not be found to pay what he really owed.

    So YES they are cheating on paying their own fair share. I've personally seen it done. I would love to only be paying taxes at that rate! Oh yes.... state taxes on purchased goods.... whoopee. That certainly doesn't cover the costs of the social services and education we have to shell out for them.

    My husband teaches at a high school that is primarily hispanic with a large percentage of immigrant kids. The kids frequently miss many days of school (no not for working in the fields) and the parents are not involved. Truancy is a big issue and they feel that the education should be tailored to them an their schedules. The whole family is going to Mexico for a month so Junior misses school. When they get back, they expect the kids to have the same grade and to be able to start where they left off. It's amazing! And it happens all the time. There are the few kids who are really trying to get ahead in school, go to college etc..... but they are NOT the majority.
    Every year it gets worse and worse. Now the school takes 3 weeks off at Christmas because to many kids disappear for a month at that time!

    Living in an area that has a very large illegal alien population I see firsthand the effects. We won't even start talking about the number of pollution spewing, non-registered, illegally driven vehicles that you see. It's amazing, it truly is.

    Let those who are so certain that services to illegals be free step up and use all your money to sponsor families. I'm darned tired of shelling mine out. :angryfire

    MaryRose
    ITA....in this area, I can surely be rightly accused of holding the conservative point of view. Any imbecile can do the math; we cannot afford it anymore. I wish gov't would see it as we do.
  5. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from teeituptom
    And how could you close the borders

    I guess you could use some of the military

    just bring them home where they belong, dont keep them in Iraq and afghanistan
    got to agree....just let em do it AFTER my husband retires rofl..... NO desire to live on the MEX border here!!!
  6. by   JedsMom
    AMEN to Mattsmom81 and Mryrose couldn't have said it better myself.
  7. by   mattsmom81
    I know quite a few reservists and active military personel who would be happy to guard our borders, actually...and IMO it would be a great service provided to their country. Not every military person is overseas in acute battle situations. Many are on bases in less essential roles. I (and so would the border patrolmen I know) would welcome a harder look at our military assisting in patrolling borders...even in a rotational service type arrangement. Our border police are too few in numbers to be effective and our borders are a revolving door for illegals sneaking in. Scarier thought than ever since 9/11.
  8. by   SmilingBluEyes
    As dangerous as border patrol work is, it may well need to become a military duty assignment. And I agree, we need to tighten em up bigtime.....for security as well as illegal immigration concerns.
  9. by   nursesarah
    i always find these threads interesting. i'm from canada where, obviously, this is not a problem, because the government pays for the majority of all patient's healthcare (major misconception, however, is that it is free which technically it's not. there are stuff we need to pay for). and we undoubtedly have one of the best healthcare systems in the world, despite cutbacks. but my point is, how could anyone consider not treating a patient in need just because they don't have insurance?
  10. by   MryRose
    I think it is even more ludicrous to enter a country illegally and then demand to be taken care of!

    Oh and then lets talk about babies...... why is it they can't support 1 or 2 children but then have 2 or 3 more???? Maybe if they HAD to pay for the medical costs of birth alone it might stop the amount of welfare being doled out because now they have American babies... and we have to now support them, and the rest of the family too.

    1980, my daughter was born c-section...... we had no insurance.... it took us a year to pay off that medical bill. Yet there were mothers in the same hospital on the same floor getting a free ride. Not fair!

    The issue is clearly a monetary one. No matter what how you want to "spin" it, we simply do not have the money to do it.

    And frankly, I am reeeeaaallly tired of paying for other people abusing my country.

    You want to help?? Good... send your paycheck to a family in Mexico every month.... that will be one less family trying to move into my state.

    MaryRose
  11. by   nursesarah
    yikes! so basically what you are saying is that someone who has lived in poverty their whole life, has come to america in the hopes of starting a new life for themselves, but can't get a job becuase maybe their english and education isn't great, and therefore can't afford birth control or abortions because of the expense isn't entitled to receive basic medical care? what, do u want these people to give birth in alleys somewhere? maybe...instead of the government spending so much money on deporting these "illegal aliens" they should spend a little money on ESL programs and job skills programs so that maybe the immigrants could actually get jobs and become so called "productive contributers to the economy".

    so whatever happened to America, the Land of Opportunity?
  12. by   unknown99
    Quote from nursesarah
    yikes! so basically what you are saying is that someone who has lived in poverty their whole life, has come to america in the hopes of starting a new life for themselves, but can't get a job becuase maybe their english and education isn't great, and therefore can't afford birth control or abortions because of the expense isn't entitled to receive basic medical care? what, do u want these people to give birth in alleys somewhere? maybe...instead of the government spending so much money on deporting these "illegal aliens" they should spend a little money on ESL programs and job skills programs so that maybe the immigrants could actually get jobs and become so called "productive contributers to the economy".

    so whatever happened to America, the Land of Opportunity?
    MY SENTIMENTS EXACTLY!!!!!! Agree 100%!!!!!
  13. by   renerian
    I have a hard enough time paying of the health care needs of my own family. I am tired of paying for health care for everyone else. 7 people's health care needs (insurance HMO) is very costly on top of our 950 per month premium. Many things are not even covered. I have had to do payment arrrangements many times. Heck I do not even go to the doc when I need to.

    Before I became a nurse I had no insurance. You know what I worked my butt off to pay my medical bills, sometimes 2 jobs. I did it. I helped pay my dad's medical bills when he was dying. Right thing to do. If I knew I could not afford something I DID NOT GO.

    Sorry that is not a popular response but it is the way it is,

    renerian
    Last edit by renerian on Apr 7, '04

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