we've been having heated - but not yet angry - discussions - page 7

regarding the provision of medical services to undocumented residents - illegal aliens. As students, we've had the opportunity this semester to have clinical experiences that include being with... Read More

  1. by   flowerchild
    How much are you willing to pay for the tomato you bought at the grocery atore? If all the illegals were paid minimum wage (and that is what they would be entitled to) your grocery bill would be unaffordable. Then what? Do you really think that closing the borders, deporting, or even making all illegals, legal citizens is the answer? It's not, due to the economic impact that the illegal migrant worker contributes to our economy. You think you can't afford health care now? There would be no money left after paying the grocery bill. Going out to eat? Not an option. It would cripple our economy. The money sucked out of education and our health system, which is all they get b/c they don't qualify for govt asst like food stamps and AFDC, is far less than it costs to keep them here illegally.

    And, Don't you think our govt could keep illegals out if it wanted to? Of course they could! But, they don't want to do that for very good reasons.

    You have to understand that the illegal migrants generate more money for our economy than what it costs to educate their children and give them health care. Giving them health care is a human rights issue. They are going to get it b/c it's the right thing to do. Americans are not prone to turning people away when they seek help. Our local food banks are feeding the families through donations from private people. The illegal poor are in a very good position, especially compaired to whence they came. It's hard to feel to bad for them when you realize they have some sort of shelter, food in their bellies, education for their children, and some of the best health care in the world. Sure it's a form of slavery when it comes right down to it but they choose to be here for their american dream of food, shelter, clothing, education, health care. It's a win situation for them.

    It is not fair that they get care in our health depts but so can you. Most health depts work on a sliding scale. The more you make the more you pay. I have used the health dept even recently, I pay full price. The poor migrant pays nothing and the student payed 1/2 price. What's not fair about that?
    The migrant gets a bill too, they just don't pay it but if they give a real name, it ruins thier credit, just like it would ruin yours. Seems fair to me. It's your choice to use the ER and pay full price. Go to a Dr. and pay them upfront to avoid high ER bills. OK, not everyone has 40 or 50 bucks sometimes, but it I'd pawn anything to get care if I needed it bad enough. There are ways. I've been poor, know what it's like, used free clinics and health depts, food centers, food stamps, and mcd. Anyone can choose to leave that life behind through education, motivation, and perserverance. I know what it's like to make $10 too much per month to qualify for much needed assistance. It stinks, but they have to draw the line somewhere.

    There is also many places that will pre pay you part of your paycheck, set it up as a buffer for emergencies. We americans can be very creative when need be. There is always a way. I cleaned apts for extra income while attending school and that was on top of my FT job. Don't complain about others. Focus on you and what you can do for yourself. Life is not fair, especially when it comes to taxes and where our money is spent by the govt.

    The illegals are going nowhere. They are here to stay and for good reason. Some areas are hit harder than others by what they take from us tax paying citizens, but in the end we could hardly make it without them. Show me an american born citizen who would go out in the baking sun for 10 hours a day, for 50 cents a bushel. Not gonna happen. Your tomato would cost 5 bucks!
    Your taxes would go up to pay the approx. $30 billion in tax credits to the poor migrant families if they were all legal. Taxes up even more to house them at our standards, food stamps, AFDC, and the list goes on and on. We are talking three digit billions here. There are over 5.2 million illegals here and most of them poor.

    My Mom always said, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

    This post is not directed at any one individule. I'm not flaming any one person here. It is made as a general comment in response to all posts here on this thread.
  2. by   inna
    Quote from flowerchild
    How much are you willing to pay for the tomato you bought at the grocery atore? If all the illegals were paid minimum wage (and that is what they would be entitled to) your grocery bill would be unaffordable. Then what? Do you really think that closing the borders, deporting, or even making all illegals, legal citizens is the answer? It's not, due to the economic impact that the illegal migrant worker contributes to our economy. You think you can't afford health care now? There would be no money left after paying the grocery bill. Going out to eat? Not an option. It would cripple our economy. The money sucked out of education and our health system, which is all they get b/c they don't qualify for govt asst like food stamps and AFDC, is far less than it costs to keep them here illegally.

    And, Don't you think our govt could keep illegals out if it wanted to? Of course they could! But, they don't want to do that for very good reasons.

    You have to understand that the illegal migrants generate more money for our economy than what it costs to educate their children and give them health care. Giving them health care is a human rights issue. They are going to get it b/c it's the right thing to do. Americans are not prone to turning people away when they seek help. Our local food banks are feeding the families through donations from private people. The illegal poor are in a very good position, especially compaired to whence they came. It's hard to feel to bad for them when you realize they have some sort of shelter, food in their bellies, education for their children, and some of the best health care in the world. Sure it's a form of slavery when it comes right down to it but they choose to be here for their american dream of food, shelter, clothing, education, health care. It's a win situation for them.

    It is not fair that they get care in our health depts but so can you. Most health depts work on a sliding scale. The more you make the more you pay. I have used the health dept even recently, I pay full price. The poor migrant pays nothing and the student payed 1/2 price. What's not fair about that?
    The migrant gets a bill too, they just don't pay it but if they give a real name, it ruins thier credit, just like it would ruin yours. Seems fair to me. It's your choice to use the ER and pay full price. Go to a Dr. and pay them upfront to avoid high ER bills. OK, not everyone has 40 or 50 bucks sometimes, but it I'd pawn anything to get care if I needed it bad enough. There are ways. I've been poor, know what it's like, used free clinics and health depts, food centers, food stamps, and mcd. Anyone can choose to leave that life behind through education, motivation, and perserverance. I know what it's like to make $10 too much per month to qualify for much needed assistance. It stinks, but they have to draw the line somewhere.

    There is also many places that will pre pay you part of your paycheck, set it up as a buffer for emergencies. We americans can be very creative when need be. There is always a way. I cleaned apts for extra income while attending school and that was on top of my FT job. Don't complain about others. Focus on you and what you can do for yourself. Life is not fair, especially when it comes to taxes and where our money is spent by the govt.

    The illegals are going nowhere. They are here to stay and for good reason. Some areas are hit harder than others by what they take from us tax paying citizens, but in the end we could hardly make it without them. Show me an american born citizen who would go out in the baking sun for 10 hours a day, for 50 cents a bushel. Not gonna happen. Your tomato would cost 5 bucks!
    Your taxes would go up to pay the approx. $30 billion in tax credits to the poor migrant families if they were all legal. Taxes up even more to house them at our standards, food stamps, AFDC, and the list goes on and on. We are talking three digit billions here. There are over 5.2 million illegals here and most of them poor.

    My Mom always said, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

    This post is not directed at any one individule. I'm not flaming any one person here. It is made as a general comment in response to all posts here on this thread.
    VERY WELL SAID!!! MAYBE IF THE CITIZENS HERE ARE WILLING TO DO THE JOBS THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS HAVE, EMPLOYERS WOULDN'T HAVE TO HIRE THE UNDOCUMENTED ONES.
  3. by   unknown99
    Quote from Alnamvet
    Best post I've had the pleasure to read...way to go hermano...or is it hermana?
    It's hermana.... although I am caucasian. My husband is of Mexican descent.
  4. by   unknown99
    Quote from inna
    VERY WELL SAID!!! MAYBE IF THE CITIZENS HERE ARE WILLING TO DO THE JOBS THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS HAVE, EMPLOYERS WOULDN'T HAVE TO HIRE THE UNDOCUMENTED ONES.

    BINGO!!!!!!!!
  5. by   teeituptom
    Everyone pays taxes
    called sales tax even if just for their beer and smokes
    8 per cent here in Texas




    so everyone pays at least some one way ot another
  6. by   IowaCindy
    Honestly, having been immersed in studies for the last few years, I've not kept up on current events and policy changes - such as Bush's recent announcement about 'grandfathering' in illegals. At least I think there's going to be some kind of forgiveness. Like I said, I've kept up with next to nothing concerning national/world events. Nursing school has been a big enough challenge to me.

    But after reading everyone's posts I see that my thoughts are falling right about down the middle of what's been posted. As a nurse, (and as the individual I was before I became a nurse), I expect to provide the best care possible to whomever is in my facility/agency/organization. I don't think there's much debate for me ... I've chosen to be a care giver, so that's what I will do.

    As a person, a citizen...I think when school is over in May I will have to do some studying about the issues related to immigration. In my area of the country there are more and more illegals living here. How that will affect the services that are provided for all and how those services will be funded is a question.

    Just as I must budget my own expenses, if we as a nation are going to provide for anyone who is within our borders then we'll have to prioritize our available finances. Who decides, that will be an issue for the next election, huh?

    And that's a whole other message line!

    Thanks everyone for discussing this and causing me to think beyond my med-surg studies!
  7. by   fergus51
    Quote from inna
    VERY WELL SAID!!! MAYBE IF THE CITIZENS HERE ARE WILLING TO DO THE JOBS THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS HAVE, EMPLOYERS WOULDN'T HAVE TO HIRE THE UNDOCUMENTED ONES.
    Maybe if the employers would pay a decent wage for the work, Americans would apply. They don't have to hire illegals, they choose to. Cheap labor, no health insurance or sick pay, can't complain about poor treatment on the job... what employer could ask for more? I don't think we help illegals by defending those who take advantage of them as cheap labour.
  8. by   Energizer Bunny
    Quote from fergus51
    Maybe if the employers would pay a decent wage for the work, Americans would apply. They don't have to hire illegals, they choose to. Cheap labor, no health insurance or sick pay, can't complain about poor treatment on the job... what employer could ask for more? I don't think we help illegals by defending those who take advantage of them as cheap labour.
    fergus! I found something we agree on! :chuckle I know that when I become a nurse, I will treat everyone equally and I really truly try not to look down on others for their race, sex, etc. I never really think too much about illegal immigrants and now I am (we don't have many here in our little town in NY) so it is great that this topic was brought up. Another thing to really look into and see what our government is doing/not doing about it.
  9. by   fergus51
    LOL! We have a lot of illegal and legal immigrants where I work. Personally, I could care less where the patients are from. I get the same hourly wage either way and am one of thoe crazy Canadians who thinks everyone deserves healthcare.
  10. by   barefootlady
    I would give the care. Legal or not. If we can pay for bombs then we can pay for care.
  11. by   unknown99
    Quote from fergus51
    LOL! We have a lot of illegal and legal immigrants where I work. Personally, I could care less where the patients are from. I get the same hourly wage either way and am one of thoe crazy Canadians who thinks everyone deserves healthcare.

    Amen to that!!!
  12. by   unknown99
    Quote from barefootlady
    I would give the care. Legal or not. If we can pay for bombs then we can pay for care.

    My sentiments exactly!!!
  13. by   teeituptom
    Quote from barefootlady
    I would give the care. Legal or not. If we can pay for bombs then we can pay for care.

    I agree


    And where is Ted Kennedy when we need him

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