we've been having heated - but not yet angry - discussions - page 5

regarding the provision of medical services to undocumented residents - illegal aliens. As students, we've had the opportunity this semester to have clinical experiences that include being with... Read More

  1. by   gypsyatheart
    Well, I have to agree with those who say we should curtail services to illegal aliens. I don't think there is anything "ignorant" about wanting to take care of your "own", before those who are not here legally...or even if they are here in some sort of "legal" fashion...but just for the handout (ie: moms here having babies who automatically become citizens, now they all get a free ride).
    There is nothing "ignorant" about the huge expense we, the taxpayers, incur because of these individuals. I do not want to deny care to anyone, but come on, the abuse is rampant!
  2. by   gypsyatheart
    Excellent post, you nailed it!


    Quote from DietCokeAddict
    The key phase in this article is, "In a 2002 study conducted with the cooperation of immigrant rights organizations..". Gee, I wonder why it took a positive view of illegal immigrants. Sounds like garbage research to me! These people are competing for jobs. They are willing to work for pennies, and there is someone there to exploit them (businesses). What happened to the minimum wage laws? What is the cost of them raising thier children in the US in poverty? Don't you think all those children who are citizens will have to be educated, provided with health care, etc.? Do you think that someone earning $1/hour will pay for it?

    What happens is that they drive down wages for the unskilled labor in this country, and the people who perform unskilled labor end up in trailor homes. But a few businesses do get rich because they are breaking the law by hiring illegals. And what will happen to this "BIG WINFALL" from illegal immigration once these 10 million immigrants are all granted citizenship? They all get unemployment, social security, etc.? That "BIG WINFALL" is now a "HUGE DEBT"!
  3. by   teeituptom
    Quote from zenman
    My Indian ancestors wish you had been around to protect against those "foreign invaders!" At least Custer got shafted!
    No shaft just a very close haircut
  4. by   fiestynurse
    Quote from gwenith
    To be honest the biggest drain on health care at present is the legal system and it is definitely a "non-essential service"

    We were and low litigious society until recently when a change in how the legal fratenity dealt with lawsuits caused a sudden rise in litigation with the concurrent rise in medical insurance passed on as rising cost to the consumer.

    We too have a lot of illegal aliens who slip through the cracks or even come over from thier own country to have the operation here on someone's borrowed medicare card but they are not putting the strain on the sytem that the lawyers are.
    The biggest drain on health care is not the legal system. It is our privatized health care system and the greedy insurance companies.
    Look at the research:

    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/fea....mencimer.html

    http://www.insurance-reform.org/StableLosses.pdf
  5. by   hock1
    Quote from angel337
    that was well said. i think americans can be the most ungrateful people. why? because alot of americans don't know what it is like to live in profound poverty. we feel we have the right to be choosy about jobs, where we live and so forth. there isn't anything wrong with that, but we need to respect these people that are willing to take jobs for more than 65% less than what we would work for. our government is well aware of the financial burden that illegal aliens pose and if they wanted to do something about it they would.
    What rich person understands the plight on anybody but themselves? The heart of the matter is people would not come here if it were not for the welfare. Why move to another country and starve? A way to stop the problem is to allow for a legal way to immigrate. My family came over in 1914 with tons of others who were also not welcomed at the time. We took cheap labor jobs and brought different cultures/languages. We had to have a sponsor (person willing to pay for immigrant). There were no hand outs, except churces and charities. Also if you were caught with TB, you went back to where you came from. It wasn't being cruel, it was being sensible for the people already living in the USA. I think something like that should be done here. It makes me sick to see people taken advantage of, dying in trailers, treated a step above a slave, etc. There has to be a better way.
  6. by   zenman
    The biggest drain on health care is not the legal system. It is our privatized health care system and the greedy insurance companies.
    USA Healthcare Crisis www.usahealthcarecrisis.com
  7. by   fiestynurse
    Love your web site zenman. I just e-mailed it to a few of my fellow health care advocates. - Thanks!
  8. by   unknown99
    Quote from fiestynurse
    The biggest drain on health care is not the legal system. It is our privatized health care system and the greedy insurance companies.
    ]
    That is so true!!!! 100% accurate!!!
  9. by   unknown99
    Quote from vhope
    What rich person understands the plight on anybody but themselves? The heart of the matter is people would not come here if it were not for the welfare. Why move to another country and starve? A way to stop the problem is to allow for a legal way to immigrate. My family came over in 1914 with tons of others who were also not welcomed at the time. We took cheap labor jobs and brought different cultures/languages. We had to have a sponsor (person willing to pay for immigrant). There were no hand outs, except churces and charities. Also if you were caught with TB, you went back to where you came from. It wasn't being cruel, it was being sensible for the people already living in the USA. I think something like that should be done here. It makes me sick to see people taken advantage of, dying in trailers, treated a step above a slave, etc. There has to be a better way.

    You hit the nail on the head!!!
  10. by   teeituptom
    I know what it is ti be and be comfortable

    When I was in nsg school I was making only 5 grand a yr and managed to scrape by with the help of food gardens
    and hunting, venison and rabbit and squirrel and fish were a staple food group for us.

    Now I go out to dinner and venison is a delicacy, go figure.
    same with rabbit.

    course now I make a little over a 100 grand a year also
  11. by   moia
    I have no problem with providing EMERGENCY care for illegal aliens but I believe as soon as they are stable they go straight home.

    I also believe the country of origin should be officially billed for that persons stay in hospital.
    I don't accept the double standard. We expect tourists to have travellers insurance or health insurance of some kind, we expect citizens to have insurance, why do we drop this standard for illegals?
    I believe the illegal should be expected to pay and arrangements should be made for payment through the illegal employer or the illegal before discharge. The hospital my husband had bypass at made sure he had insurance before he got ANY treatment.
    In Canada we have people who fly in and go straight to the hospital and demand dialysis and we have to provide it. We do one treatment and then turf them out with the number for social services. They are quite surprised to have to find accommadation for themselves.
    I have absolutely no sympathy for this. We have people who waited years to come to canada, they did it the legal way and it is disgusting to see a criminal get the services we have all worked so hard to create.

    We will always be a haven for refugees and I welcome them with open arms.
    Those that have suffered terribly for their opinions need a safe place to carry on the fight .I refuse to offer that haven for economic refugees.
    Do it legally, apply for a work visa and prove that you have a job to go to and welcome to free health care because you are now supporting the service.
    Be honest and be an asset.
    Every person who enters a country illegally for economic reasons is supporting organized crime. They pay criminals to smuggle them in, they encourage corrupt businesses to continue to break the law..everything about them is surrounded by criminal activity. If you remove the economic illegal the circle of crime that surrounds them can't survive.
    I think that if the illegal knows exactly what job they are going to and most of them work for the same farmers year after year they should be given a work visa and all the benefits that come from paying income tax, unemployment and pension premiums. Once it is proven that they are supporting government services they should be given access to them. If you cant meet this test then you get no access except emergent care and a one way ticket home.


    Edited to comment on post below:
    At what cost do you open your health care to the world? Do you mean everyone should have my standard of health care or just the basics?
    Who is going to pay for this?
    I would love to announce to the world that healthcare is a right so come on over and don't bother getting a job or paying into the service.
    It would be lovely to be so naive.

    Healthcare costs money. Everyone has to get paid.

    I am not interested in having my wages cut in half so I can care for the world. I don't know any doctors who would be happy having their wages cut in half. How about the pharmacist and the housekeeping staff?

    I am not a martyr for healthcare and I am not willing to starve so I can provide care to everyone.
    It is lovely that you believe healthcare is a right and everyone in the world should have access to dialysis , open heart surgery, organ transplant, radiation and chemo. Who is going to provide those services? for free?
    I don't work for free, I don't want to work for free. I have a family to support and taxes to pay.
    But I wont stop you if you want to work for free or for half your wages because if you truly believe we have an obligation to provide everyone in the world the same level of care we have built then be prepared to pay for it personally.
    Last edit by moia on Apr 1, '04
  12. by   wjf00
    Quote from moia
    I have no problem with providing EMERGENCY care for illegal aliens but I believe as soon as they are stable they go straight home.

    I also believe the country of origin should be officially billed for that persons stay in hospital.
    I don't accept the double standard. We expect tourists to have travellers insurance or health insurance of some kind, we expect citizens to have insurance, why do we drop this standard for illegals?
    I believe the illegal should be expected to pay and arrangements should be made for payment through the illegal employer or the illegal before discharge. The hospital my husband had bypass at made sure he had insurance before he got ANY treatment.
    In Canada we have people who fly in and go straight to the hospital and demand dialysis and we have to provide it. We do one treatment and then turf them out with the number for social services. They are quite surprised to have to find accommadation for themselves.
    I have absolutely no sympathy for this. We have people who waited years to come to canada, they did it the legal way and it is disgusting to see a criminal get the services we have all worked so hard to create.

    We will always be a haven for refugees and I welcome them with open arms.
    Those that have suffered terribly for their opinions need a safe place to carry on the fight .I refuse to offer that haven for economic refugees.
    Do it legally, apply for a work visa and prove that you have a job to go to and welcome to free health care because you are now supporting the service.
    Be honest and be an asset.
    I am sorry but I disagree. I believe healthcare is a basic human right that everyone is entitled too. The US military treats enemy combatants, and I don't think an alien, illeagal or not, is any less entitled to healthcare. Payment should be based on ability to pay only. If we can threaten the world with nuclear weapons costing billions of dollars, then we can give healthcare to the indigent within our borders, no matter how they arrived here.
    Last edit by wjf00 on Apr 1, '04
  13. by   teeituptom
    Amen wjf00

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