we've been having heated - but not yet angry - discussions - page 3

regarding the provision of medical services to undocumented residents - illegal aliens. As students, we've had the opportunity this semester to have clinical experiences that include being with... Read More

  1. by   erikanursenurse
    You summed it up very well. There is a bottom line here. Tha patient deserves care and should be treated with diginity and respect regardless of the jewlery, # of children, public assistance, etc. It is funny how so many nurses judge the patients and their circumstances and simultaneously defend themselves as a good provider of care. A "good nurse" deals with the patient as a whole being so how can these negative judgments not affect your quality ofcare?
    Last edit by erikanursenurse on Apr 8, '04
  2. by   Speculating
    So we'll cut out the illegal aliens. Then the US citizens who can't afford insurance have to be next after all you have to be fair. Then of course the children who's parents can't afford insurance must be ousted next. Not all of use are lucky enough to get inexpensive insurance through our jobs. Trying to buy insurance outside of a job can run well into hundreds of dollars a month which is a bit much for minimum wage or less to handle. They are usually more consider about eating first. These folks don't seem to be bothering you when they are picking your strawberries, oranges, mowing your lawns and doing the other work you don't want to do yourself. The illegal aliens are only here because your giving them jobs. We keep taking about unemployment why isn't the unemployment offices forcing the unemployed citizens to do these jobs. Nobody is to blame but us. Most of all I've yet to not receive my hourly wage because I've taken care of an uninsured person. Usually these people are nice, quiet and thankful. Unlike some of the whining B!+@hing nurses I'd rather see deported.
  3. by   fergus51
    Personally, I don't judge immigrants or those without money when providing care. I work in a system where everyone contributes to healthcare through taxes. I was just pointing out how we focus on the illegal aliens, but ignore the home grown wasters.
  4. by   NursesRmofun
    [font=franklin gothic medium]i am a nurse. i can treat whoever comes across my path without judging them as far as my treatment. i treat everyone the same. (okay, i do give an extra backrub to the elderly patients. ) however, i do have my own opinions and views. the point was made that illegals aren't the only ones draining the system. point taken. however, in the future, i think the illegal alien problem is going to be a larger problem over all. just my opinon.
  5. by   Speculating
    Quote from nursesrmofun
    [font=franklin gothic medium]i am a nurse. i can treat whoever comes across my path without judging them as far as my treatment. i treat everyone the same. (okay, i do give an extra backrub to the elderly patients. ) however, i do have my own opinions and views. the point was made that illegals aren't the only ones draining the system. point taken. however, in the future, i think the illegal alien problem is going to be a larger problem over all. just my opinon.
    your probably right it will be a growing problem that we are making if they don't have a job they won't stay.
    and, fergus51 the tylenol thing. i had a two drunks drive through their home town to my hospital. they brought their sick child who threw up four hours previously and was fine when i saw the four year old. they brought her about 40 miles for a script for tylenol (all i could do to keep a straight face) . so, after the md cleared the kid. i told mom we didn't keep tylenol on the unit and had to get from pharmacy. since i couldn't release a baby to two drunks the cops show up 5 minutes after my call. poor mom got taken away with 2 outstanding warrants against her. we kept the child till grandma showed up to get her.
  6. by   Buddha
    I admit i have never treated an illegal in LTC. I have treated an elderly people whom were basicaly abandoned in my facility, whom our home was eating the cost of their stay. We would purchase out of our own pockets whatever that person needed, without question. I just feel that their needs to be a better way. I bet if you went to Mexico or any other country we wouldn't get the same treatment we give here. Yes I believe in America and all it's ideals and treat all my patients with respect ,but I feel chairty begins at home to our people.
    Last edit by Buddha on Mar 24, '04
  7. by   TweetiePieRN
    I live in california, land of the illegal immigrant influx! I am all for closing the borders and getting our state (not to mention on country) back on track! No more wasting tax payers dollars on illegal immigration and the issues it is causing here at home. A while back, our governor wanted to grant driver's licenses to illegal immigrants, provide FREE college education to the illegals as well. Some "rights" group claimed that if we didn't provide these things, we were being "anti-hispanic". Illegal immigrants come from every corner of the planet, not just Mexico. However, Mexico is the closest foreign country so a majority are coming from there. This "rights" group tries to play the race card every time! It's definitely NOT a race issue.

    I am extremely AGAINST any assistance for ANY illegal immigrant. Granted, at work in my hospital...i dont care what my patient's legal status is....they will get VERY GOOD CARE. But, I have a right to have an opinion outside of work.

    When I was a teenager, my parents had med insurance, but couldn't afford dental insurance. They didnt make enough to buy their own dental insurance, but made too much to get govt assistance. But, illegal immigrants were able and still are able to get dental assistance! How do I know these people were illegal...there was a huge news segment on this back in 1997!! What an outrage!

    I feel better now. You all have a great day, I have to get to school now.
  8. by   TweetiePieRN
    Quote from Buddha
    Yes I believe in America and all it's ideals and treat all my patients with respect ,but I feel chairty begains at home to our people.
    AGREED!!!!!
  9. by   mattsmom81
    As a nurse in a border state, I agree with those who feel illegals are a problem that is NOT being dealt with effectively.

    I am also incensed to see people on SSD and receiving public $$$ who do NOT need to be there, but know how to 'work the system' to get to the $$. They choose NOT to work and prefer to take. Our system rewards those who do not WANT to work for their keep.

    The hardworking people in lower and middle classes who fall on hard times or face a catastrophe in their lives will likely NOT qualify for assistance... simply based on the fact they legally work in America. Something not quite right with this, IMO. I would like to see NO help for illegals, and help extended to those who WANT to work here legally, or already DO work here legally and need a hand to get back to working gainfully in some form.

    So much abuse of our public welfare and social system...I see it every day. I heard again SS will dry up in 20 years or so...there won't be anything for the boomers after a lifetime of paying into it. Wish they'd just dissolve it and let us invest our own money. The city of Galveston Texas did that and their citizens will retire millionaires I hear. Hope ya'll are saving now bigtime for those 'golden years.'
  10. by   saphireRN
    KMCHUGH, you said it all! ITA!

    Just a few observations.....I live and work in a predominately Hispanic/Mexican state. Whoever said that minorities do not have the problems with child abuse/neglect, drug use/abuse..... puhleeeze! You clearly have never been to any of the western/southwestern border states. These people have these same problems, just like any other group.

    As for providing healthcare to these illegal aliens....we do it. No one is "judged" or not given adequate or appropriate care for not being legal.

    I, for one, do not think it is right that these illegals are putting such a drain on our economic resources. And this problem is not getting any better, we are getting hundreds of illegals monthly, if not weekly into our border state.
    Is it right that if, I, let's say, became disabled, lost my job, lost my insurance, could not qualify for public assistance.....yet it is being doled out freely to a group of people who are here illegally? I do not think so.

    I am not proposing that anyone is denied care...I would however, limit services to these illegal aliens, stabilize them (how much stabilization for a sore throat....) and ship 'em back and let their own government deal with their own people. This country can't even deal with it's own problems, help it's own people, yet gladly, doles out aid to non-US individuals...???

    If we are going to provide free healthcare to one group of people, then it should be given just as freely to all.....why are my tax dollars going to pay for someone else's healthcare, they are receiving benefits natural born citizens are denied!

    As for those who say the illegals are here doing work that we US folks don't/won't do....reality check, not all of them are here working....a great percentage of them are here reaping the benefits of a "free ride" and are not working..... Furthermore, fine, get INS and the govt. to enforce our border laws, and these companies will be forced to pay at least the minimum wage to our citizens, and they will have jobs (funny, if no one is giving you a handout, you're forced to work for a living).


    As we can see, there are a lot of issues that need resolving....too bad our lawmakers don't care what is happenning in our own country....
  11. by   fergus51
    Quote from Buddha
    . I bet if you went to Mexico or any other country we wouldn't get the same treatment we give here.
    Actually, a lot of countries do provide care to illegals and non-citizens in hospitals. It is a broad problem affecting many countries. Believe me, we have a lot of families who aren't citizens, don't pay taxes and we still treat their children as aggressively as any others. We've even had 2 American families with kids in the unit since I've worked here. Both were just tourists and obviously didn't plan on giving birth while they were in Canada.

    Again though, why aren't we looking at the source of the problem? Illegal aliens only stay because they can find work, so why aren't the people hiring them held responsible?
  12. by   unknown99
    Quote from Speculating
    So we'll cut out the illegal aliens. Then the US citizens who can't afford insurance have to be next after all you have to be fair. Then of course the children who's parents can't afford insurance must be ousted next. Not all of use are lucky enough to get inexpensive insurance through our jobs. Trying to buy insurance outside of a job can run well into hundreds of dollars a month which is a bit much for minimum wage or less to handle. They are usually more consider about eating first. These folks don't seem to be bothering you when they are picking your strawberries, oranges, mowing your lawns and doing the other work you don't want to do yourself. The illegal aliens are only here because your giving them jobs. We keep taking about unemployment why isn't the unemployment offices forcing the unemployed citizens to do these jobs. Nobody is to blame but us. Most of all I've yet to not receive my hourly wage because I've taken care of an uninsured person. Usually these people are nice, quiet and thankful. Unlike some of the whining B!+@hing nurses I'd rather see deported.
    AMEN!!!!!!!
  13. by   unknown99
    [QUOTE=kmchugh]Nice. I have reflected on this question quite a bit. I don't happen to agree with you. In your mind, my disagreement means I should quit being a nurse. And if I don't want to quit, the healthcare police should take away my license.

    Reply by sagarcia210:

    I believe you missed my point, but maybe I didn't make myself clear. I did not mean that if you disagree you should not be a nurse. What I meant, is that if one would deny healthcare/help based solely on the fact that the person was undocumented/illegal, then maybe that person should step down and let someone else help that person.

    Following are some very good points taken from a website that deals with hispanic issues:
    SAN FRANCISCO January 11, 2004 (NYTimes)-Imagine America without undocumented immigrants, the people who flip the burgers, clean the toilets, watch the kids and send their children to public schools.

    Would the grass be greener?

    The Pew Hispanic Center estimated in 2001 that the unauthorized labor force in the United States totaled 5.3 million workers, including 700,000 restaurant workers, 250,000 household employees and 620,000 construction workers. In addition, about 1.2 million of the 2.5 million wage-earning farm workers live here undocumentedly, according to a study by Philip L. Martin, a professor at the University of California at Davis who studies immigration and farm labor.

    That is a whole lot of cheap labor.

    Without it, fruit and vegetables would rot in fields. Toddlers in Manhattan would be without nannies. Towels at hotels in states like Florida, Texas and California would go unlaundered. Commuters at airports from Miami to Newark would be stranded as taxi cabs sat driverless. Home improvement projects across the Sun Belt would grind to a halt. And bedpans and lunch trays at nursing homes in Chicago, New York, Houston and Los Angeles would go uncollected.

    While hospitals and clinics in Los Angeles County, for example, bear huge health care costs associated with uninsured undocumented immigrants - one study put the total at $340 million in 2002 - the federal government enjoys a "bonanza" from many of the same immigrants who pay federal taxes but receive no benefits in return, Mr. Yzaguirre said.

    Mr. Yzaguirre suggested that Social Security would go broke without the payments of undocumented workers, many of whom, contrary to popular perception, do have regular payroll taxes deducted from their paychecks by employers. (In some instances, undocumented workers use false Social Security numbers, while others have valid numbers from when they had worked legally.)

    Mr. Yzaguirre also rejected suggestions that Americans would maintain their standard of living without the low-wage contributions of those workers. He agreed with Professor Borjas that some Americans would enjoy fatter paychecks, but he said all Americans would be punished by having to pay more for everything from a McDonald's hamburger to a new house.

    In a 2002 study conducted with the cooperation of immigrant rights organizations, researchers at the Center for Urban Economic Development at the University of Illinois at Chicago concluded that the 300,000 or so undocumented immigrants in Chicago did not use government benefits at a substantial rate. The study also estimated that 70 percent of the undocumented workers paid payroll taxes, like Social Security and unemployment insurance. The researchers calculated other economic benefits, finding that consumer spending by undocumented migrants generated more than 31,000 jobs and contributed $5.34 billion annually to the gross regional product in Chicago.

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